View Poll Results: What does redneck refer to

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  • It refers to a culture

    76 90.48%
  • It refers to a race

    8 9.52%
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Thread: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

  1. #161
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Again, a very narrow perspective.

    I've studied the civil war very carefully. The primary causes and issues were economics and political power. Northeastern states dominated Congress and wanted to enact tariffs and other restrictions on trade that would destroy the south economically. Southern states responded by challenging Fedgov power, declaring provisions they considered intolerable "null and void" within their borders.

    Slavery was actually more of a side-issue, until Lincoln decided to make it a "causus belli", a propaganda tool to demonize the opposition and make the war seem like a glorious fight of good against evil, rather than its real causes: the greed of various Northern industrial and shipping concerns, and the desire of certain political figures to make the central government supreme over the states.

    Learn a little history.
    Lincoln's "House Divided" speech was in 1858.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Lack of comprehension is not my problem.
    If someone can't understand the message, even when it has been clarified time and again, it is not my duty to educate those who don't want to understand.
    You're wrong. It IS your failure if you can't communicate your message. And this doesn't mean you personally, this is those in general who wish the Confederate flag to not be offensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I don't respect people that blame me for things I did not do. It's a two way street, you have to show it to get it and all my life I have operated as if race is of no importance to me, only character.

    What do I get in return?

    Constant implications that I am still a racist because of the place I was born.

    It's not right to always apply guilt be association.
    You don't respect people when they ask you to not do something they've informed you offends them?

    You are just ignoring the audience.

    I'm trying to explain to you why this is happening. I'm trying to educate you about the communication process and why the efforts to reform the image of the Confederate flag are failing even today.

    This is NOT about history. This is about communication. And the side trying to redeem the flag are failing at their efforts to do so.

    It doesn't help that I have to drive past a statue of the founder of the KKK with a Confederate flag flying behind it at least once a week.

    What I'm trying to tell you is that if you're saying "f*** you" to your audience when they don't understand what you're trying to communicate is that it IS your fault.

    You are failing to express your point of view in a way that alters the perception of your audience. And you seem proud of it; because you blame your audience in the first line of your post - which is actual proof of your failure as a communicator.

    Now, I'll grant you this: you're going to have a hard time ever altering what that flag will mean to most people except Southern whites - because of the one part of communication that you can't control and that's the outside force of history. It was flown by the enemy of the US who happened to be slave-owners (I'm not saying the War was about slavery); It was flown by racist organizations in the 1950s and 1960s during the Civil Rights struggle. It's flown frequently by racist organizations today as well.

    So you may be flying it for different reasons, but when it has that much association, you're likely never going to change the mind of your audience. So, when you show it - you HAVE to take that into account. If you don't, then once again, you fail as the communicator.

    I'm telling you these things from my perspective of a Communications major. Okay, that's what I studied. I'm explaining to you why you're failing and likely, will always fail to reclaim the meaning of the flag. It carries too much weight. I freaking live in the South now and I love it and I love most people (although Nashville is surprisingly full of transplants from all over) here, so I know the Southern perspective on the war and hear it ad nauseam. But it's not going to change the fact that the Confederate flag is a symbol of pride for Southern whites only. It will always be a symbol of oppression for Southern blacks.

    It may not mean that to you; but if you're ignore your audience, you fail to communicate. It's not what you've done. It's the years of history that will always weigh down that flag.

  3. #163
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    So the Confederates fire first, yet you blame it on the north? Completely ignoring the fact that South Carolina succeeding is treason, and more than enough justification for war.
    Show me in the Constitution of the United States where secession is prohibited to the states. It's called defensive fire against an invading fleet. Firing in defense is not an offensive act while invading with seaborne forces is an offensive act as is invasion of land forces.

  4. #164
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    My understanding is that it was based on pragmatism; the largely industrial North's economy didn't require slaves by the 1800s; the southern agrarian economy did.
    Although I think it was on its way out anyway, what with the invention of the cotton gin and other mechanical gadgets and gizmos which made hand-picking and manual labor less essential.
    By the 1900s, slavery probably would've no longer been economically advantageous to the South.
    It would've likely gone by the way side - but probably much later.

    The cotton gin actually caused a surge in slavery: eHistory.com: Invention of Cotton Gin

    Slavery in America

    But eventual automation may have eventually led to a decline in slavery. But it initially cause a huge rise in slavery and also caused an increase in the price of slaves.

  5. #165
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Show me in the Constitution of the United States where secession is prohibited to the states. It's called defensive fire against an invading fleet. Firing in defense is not an offensive act while invading with seaborne forces is an offensive act as is invasion of land forces.
    It was an act of treason. The entire CSA was treason against the USA. That land was the United States, and they had a right to be within the confines of their own boarders.

  6. #166
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I've shown you, as have others, that you were taught wrong. Lincoln, himself, stated that he went to war for taxes not slavery. Those are his words in the historical record that said it. He was so happy to leave slavery alone that he mentions the Corwin Amendment, which would have made slavery legal for all time. He wrote it and had Corwin submit it to Congress, which is why it's called the Corwin Amendment.
    Link to Lincoln writing the Corwin Amendment please? He supported it as a compromise to stave off the Civil War.
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  7. #167
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    You're wrong. It IS your failure if you can't communicate your message. And this doesn't mean you personally, this is those in general who wish the Confederate flag to not be offensive.
    I can't change the reception if someone doesn't want to understand.
    A person who doesn't want to understand, is almost impossible to get through to.


    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    You don't respect people when they ask you to not do something they've informed you offends them?

    You are just ignoring the audience.

    I'm trying to explain to you why this is happening. I'm trying to educate you about the communication process and why the efforts to reform the image of the Confederate flag are failing even today.

    This is NOT about history. This is about communication. And the side trying to redeem the flag are failing at their efforts to do so.
    I understand that but it comes to a point that enough is enough.
    Constantly denigrating a group of people based on things that are out of context and misunderstood has it's limits.
    Especially when the people making the insults are more intolerant than those they are going after are perceived to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    It doesn't help that I have to drive past a statue of the founder of the KKK with a Confederate flag flying behind it at least once a week.


    Nathan Bedford Forrest did not found the Klan, although he did participate in some of it's earlier campaignes of terror, he reversed his position on Black people and adopted an incredibly liberal ideology of Black inclusion and equality.

    He also defended the city of Rome from complete destruction of the Union army.
    Looking at from that standpoint.

    There is a definite reason why many people describe those as heroes and not villains.

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    What I'm trying to tell you is that if you're saying "f*** you" to your audience when they don't understand what you're trying to communicate is that it IS your fault.

    You are failing to express your point of view in a way that alters the perception of your audience. And you seem proud of it; because you blame your audience in the first line of your post - which is actual proof of your failure as a communicator.

    Now, I'll grant you this: you're going to have a hard time ever altering what that flag will mean to most people except Southern whites - because of the one part of communication that you can't control and that's the outside force of history. It was flown by the enemy of the US who happened to be slave-owners (I'm not saying the War was about slavery); It was flown by racist organizations in the 1950s and 1960s during the Civil Rights struggle. It's flown frequently by racist organizations today as well.

    So you may be flying it for different reasons, but when it has that much association, you're likely never going to change the mind of your audience. So, when you show it - you HAVE to take that into account. If you don't, then once again, you fail as the communicator.

    I'm telling you these things from my perspective of a Communications major. Okay, that's what I studied. I'm explaining to you why you're failing and likely, will always fail to reclaim the meaning of the flag. It carries too much weight. I freaking live in the South now and I love it and I love most people (although Nashville is surprisingly full of transplants from all over) here, so I know the Southern perspective on the war and hear it ad nauseam. But it's not going to change the fact that the Confederate flag is a symbol of pride for Southern whites only. It will always be a symbol of oppression for Southern blacks.

    It may not mean that to you; but if you're ignore your audience, you fail to communicate. It's not what you've done. It's the years of history that will always weigh down that flag.
    I can't help that some people used it as a symbol of hate.
    I have had no control over it, it's something I can't change.

    All I can do is inform.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #168
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    On a related note (sort of) meth is just such a heinous drug.
    Look at these before and after pics I just came across.
    Some of the "afters" are up to five years later (I saw that a couple of the "before"s were from 2005), but most are from less than a year later.
    It's got to be the worst drug ever.

    The Faces of Meth (New Images) - KDVR

  9. #169
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    It was an act of treason. The entire CSA was treason against the USA. That land was the United States, and they had a right to be within the confines of their own boarders.
    Show me in the Constitution of the United States where secession is prohibited to the states.

  10. #170
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    Re: Does the term redneck refer to a culture or race?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    On a related note (sort of) meth is just such a heinous drug.
    Look at these before and after pics I just came across.
    Some of the "afters" are up to five years later (I saw that a couple of the "before"s were from 2005), but most are from less than a year later.
    It's got to be the worst drug ever.

    The Faces of Meth (New Images) - KDVR
    Yea it's pretty bad, especially the people who get the twitchies.
    Although I've made fun of them, I probably shouldn't because their addiction has overridden their normal social controls.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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