View Poll Results: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

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  • Yes

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Thread: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

  1. #81
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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Tell me. How would you have handled subduing a naked man who isn't responsive to requests to surrender himself ot officers? What do you think the officers SHOULD have done? A tazer is generally a safe, non-permanent method of obtaining compliance that beats the hell out of using a baton to subdue a resistant suspect.

    Do I have bias? I'm not a cop. I've just watched them do their jobs, and I've seen how fast these scenarios spin out of control. A guy who is having a psychotic episode may not be susceptible to pain, use of pressure points, and can even be freakishly strong. You're commenting about this because you have an axe to grind against particular cops, and because you've become convinced that a lot of cops are badge-heavy thugs.

    Are there bad cops? Sure. But there are a lot less of them than most people believe, and their jobs are a lot harder than you seem to think they are. There are only so many ways to subdue a person who doesn't want to be arrested, Bill. Getting into a wrestling match is likely to cause the officer serious harm, not to mention the suspect.
    WOW, just WOW. Are YOU seriously going to put your words in my mouth? Edit my posts, maybe? Where did I imply a LOT OF COPS are thugs? Or ANY cop is a thug, a thug being a criminal.
    How would I have handled it? He wasn't that far from his town, he could have called for an ambulance and backup to help subdue a deranged person.
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  2. #82
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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I think I understand now. Cops who work in S. Utah work large patrol beats ALONE. They stop cars frequently that are trafficking drugs between Arizona and/or Southern California up to Utah or farther north up I-15. They deal with a high percentage of people in those cars who are armed because there are more guns than people in the state of Utah.

    That officer is trained to focus his/her attention on the car that he/she has stopped for safety reasons. I've seen cops shot and killed or severely wounded during traffic stops like the one you described. A friend of mine was involved in a traffic stop of an 18th street gang member who ended up shooting him 11 times with an AK-47. He was permanently disabled, but amazingly, survived.

    If an officer tells you not to approach his/her car until he/she has finished dealing with the business they are engaged in, FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS. There is a good reason for them. That officer is trained to control the scene of a traffic stop (or any other scene), and that includes not allowing distractions during the process. Not only does the officer have to worry about safety risks from the car that he's stopped, but several officers in Utah have also been killed because idiots on I-15 HIT THEIR STOPPED VEHICLES ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, including a guy I worked with for several years.

    That's a lot to pay attention to without you blundering into the middle of it like some happy-go-lucky well-intentioned idiot.

    I would recommend watching this video before you get behind the wheel again.

    YouTube - L.A.P.D Training Video Feat. Chris Rock
    Wasn't I-15, it was just east of Hurricane, Utah. He was traveling with family.

    I see that now I am an idiot, as well as having an axe to grind against cops. I made it clear earlier that I know more than a few cops, as friends and neighbors, and one that I had previously served in the Navy with. He was fired, btw, since his overly agressive attitude didn't work well in a small town. Can you make one response to me without calling me names or distorting my contribution to this thread?
    Last edited by UtahBill; 06-04-10 at 09:43 AM.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    I had to give thanks for the video.
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    i love my nation very much. gotta protect her from terrorists and atheists
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    imo imprisonment for the flag burning offense is necessary. also, mandatory sentences for those that watch and do nothing to stop it.

  4. #84
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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Tucker, you MUST have had a weapon on you, what was it, roller or brush?
    I was thinking about it afterward to see if I had done something that made the cop jumpier.

    I think as I was saying no, I started to gesture towards the back bedroom where I was doing the majority of the painting (I was still taking a break when the cop arrived). To him it might have looked like something else.

    Either way, after learning the situation he thought he was going into, seeing me and not an Asian, and me gesturing to the back, I don't fault him at all for pulling the gun.

    IMO, he was perfectly justified in pulling the gun.

    Had he shot me, it would have been definitely out of line. Especially from my point of view.

    Now, if it was a Tazer instead of a gun he would have been just as justified in pulling it, but not shooting it (since I was very slow and deliberate in my hand raising and going to the floor and made no quick or threatening moves at all).

    Now, my calm reaction to the situation was the right one to have. If I freaked out and did something stupid, I could have been shot.

    If I got shot with a bullet for for a stupid reaction it would have been a tragedy. Judging by the cops reaction to even having pulled his gun in the situation (I could tell he genuinely felt bad about it) he would have been devastated if I ended up getting shot for having a stupid reaction.

    If I got hit with a tazer, it more than likely would not have been a tragedy (unless I had an unusual reaction to the tazing). I'd guess that he would still have felt bad about tazing me once it was discovered that I had done nothing wrong. While I would find the fact that I got tazed over painting someone's house funny, I'd have probably been pissed off over it too.

    Who I was pissed off at would depend on my reaction to having the tazer pointed at me. If I got tazed because I had a stupid panicky reaction, I'd be pissed off at myself. If I got tazed while having a calm and non-threatening response I'd be pissed at him. Granted, if I got tazed over having stupid reaction, it's a funnier story than if it was a stupid reaction by the cop, so that would make up for me being pissed at myself a little.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    he could have called for an ambulance and backup to help subdue a deranged person.
    The ambulance drivers would have relied on the cop to subdue the deranged and non-compliant man. They don't have guns that shoot tranquilizers like on wild kingdom (but a girl can dream, right?). Even if he'd called for backup, a physical struggle is much more likely to cause physical harm to the officers and the AP than a tazer.

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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Wasn't I-15, it was just east of Hurricane, Utah. He was traveling with family.
    Was he engaged in a traffic stop or not? You stated that he had a car pulled over and was writing a speeding ticket.

    I see that now I am an idiot, as well as having an axe to grind against cops. I made it clear earlier that I know more than a few cops, as friends and neighbors, and one that I had previously served in the Navy with.
    Knowing police officers personally is different from understanding how cops are trained to handle a scene.

    He was fired, btw, since his overly agressive attitude didn't work well in a small town.
    If you blunder into the middle of a car stop and expect the officer to stop what he is doing and devote his full attention to you, when this flies in the face of all of his training and the policies of his agency, don't expect him to blow you kisses and ask for a group hug. That's ridiculously stupid behavior.

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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I had to give thanks for the video.
    One of the greatest videos, ever.

  8. #88
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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The ambulance drivers would have relied on the cop to subdue the deranged and non-compliant man. They don't have guns that shoot tranquilizers like on wild kingdom (but a girl can dream, right?). Even if he'd called for backup, a physical struggle is much more likely to cause physical harm to the officers and the AP than a tazer.
    You got to admit that would be awesome if they did.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-04-10 at 10:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    imo imprisonment for the flag burning offense is necessary. also, mandatory sentences for those that watch and do nothing to stop it.

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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You got to admit that would be awesome if they did.
    Not as awesome as norplants in sniper rifles.

  10. #90
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    Re: Should police be required to shoot to wound suspects who threatening their lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The ambulance drivers would have relied on the cop to subdue the deranged and non-compliant man. They don't have guns that shoot tranquilizers like on wild kingdom (but a girl can dream, right?). Even if he'd called for backup, a physical struggle is much more likely to cause physical harm to the officers and the AP than a tazer.
    Please read more carefully, I said ambulance AND backup, the backup would be the help he needs to subdue the man. And some physical harm to the cops might have been cuts and scratches from the gravel on the side of the road. But I suppose the deranged man deserved to die, for not being compliant, right?
    Oracle of Utah
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