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  • Yes, this os unfair to white students

    38 79.17%
  • No, this is fair to whites since it is additional enrollment

    5 10.42%
  • Maybe. I can see the arguments for both sides, it's not clear cut

    3 6.25%
  • Other

    2 4.17%
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Thread: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

  1. #81
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Stuctural discrimination is defined as:



    A trailing education attainment would be contributing to structural discrimination.
    That doesn't prove jack.
    You have to actually prove it, not use some quote from some guy that blames past discrimination for the problems of school aged kids today.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    I do not understand why some people actually think this would be a good idea.

    There are so many problems and negative aspects to it that I simply am unable to fathom how they reach that conclusion.

    So - Please explain.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    That doesn't prove jack.
    You have to actually prove it, not use some quote from some guy that blames past discrimination for the problems of school aged kids today.
    Actually that is the definition of structural discrimination. Some people don't think it is an issue we should deal with though, and that is fine. I'm just saying it exists still to this day.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Actually that is the definition of structural discrimination. Some people don't think it is an issue we should deal with though, and that is fine. I'm just saying it exists still to this day.
    IMO, this "structural discrimination" is just BS made up for the express purpose of creating a reason to have more discrimination in the form of "affirmative action".

    That said, it is true (IMO) that past discrimination has caused some minorities to be at least slightly behind where they would be had no discrimination occurred.

    But more discrimination is NOT the proper way to correct any such perceived imbalance.

    In fact, the very act of you or I or anyone else classifying people as minorities is a form of discrimination, in and of itself.

    Better, by far, to address the causes of such imbalances – than to create a artificial imbalance to balance out the imbalance…
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    IMO, this "structural discrimination" is just BS made up for the express purpose of creating a reason to have more discrimination in the form of "affirmative action".

    That said, it is true (IMO) that past discrimination has caused some minorities to be at least slightly behind where they would be had no discrimination occurred.

    But more discrimination is NOT the proper way to correct any such perceived imbalance.

    In fact, the very act of you or I or anyone else classifying people as minorities is a form of discrimination, in and of itself.

    Better, by far, to address the causes of such imbalances – than to create a artificial imbalance to balance out the imbalance…
    Exactly. This discrimination in the form of "fair" (reverse discriminatory) policies only breeds more resentment between races of people.

    Level the playing field, let everyone earn their own success, and the level of fairness and self-respect will rise.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    IMO, this "structural discrimination" is just BS made up for the express purpose of creating a reason to have more discrimination in the form of "affirmative action".

    That said, it is true (IMO) that past discrimination has caused some minorities to be at least slightly behind where they would be had no discrimination occurred.

    But more discrimination is NOT the proper way to correct any such perceived imbalance.

    In fact, the very act of you or I or anyone else classifying people as minorities is a form of discrimination, in and of itself.

    Better, by far, to address the causes of such imbalances – than to create a artificial imbalance to balance out the imbalance…
    How is simply classifying people as a part of a group a form of discrimination? How do we adress the causes of structural discrimination which you have accepted as affecting some minorities?
    Last edited by drz-400; 06-08-10 at 10:12 PM.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Exactly. This discrimination in the form of "fair" (reverse discriminatory) policies only breeds more resentment between races of people.

    Level the playing field, let everyone earn their own success, and the level of fairness and self-respect will rise.
    Leveling the playing field would mean removing structural discrimination. Look at the definition. Fairness is different on the other hand. Which is why we have placed quite a few restrictions on affirmative action. Like the ones turtledude pointed out.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    How is simply classifying people as a part of a group a form of discrimination?
    Because it does not include them in the rest of the population.
    That they are part of a smaller group and separate from everyone else, with their own issues and problems.
    That they need special assistance because they are part of this smaller group arbitrarily created.
    That their issues need to be addressed separately from the rest of the population for some unknown reason.
    How is it NOT discrimination?


    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    How do we address the causes of structural discrimination which you have accepted as affecting some minorities?
    It is impossible to address the causes of "structural discrimination", because as your own definition of it stated, they are in the past.

    We can address the actual problems that effect those who are (or supposedly are) effected by "structural discrimination".

    Like:

    Poor education.

    Low job availability.

    These and others are the true reason that some people have less chance of entering and succeeding in college, or a trade.

    And, IMO, the proper way to address both above mentioned issues (and several others) is to streamline, revamp, and otherwise remodel the entire public education system (as those most effected by the current education issues are those who cannot afford private education anyway).

    That said, parental involvement is a key part of education and child development.

    And issues with it are part of the reason for the education issues.

    Not sure of the exact reasons.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Because it does not include them in the rest of the population.
    That they are part of a smaller group and separate from everyone else, with their own issues and problems.
    That they need special assistance because they are part of this smaller group arbitrarily created.
    That their issues need to be addressed separately from the rest of the population for some unknown reason.
    How is it NOT discrimination?
    So are we discriminating when we seperate people into groups by age for public education, or Social Security?
    What about boy or girl?
    Employmeny status?
    Are we discriminating when we decide to provide welfare, since they are means tested and only apply to those with low incomes?
    The reasons are not unknown if we accept that some structural discrimination exists.
    It is impossible to address the causes of "structural discrimination", because as your own definition of it stated, they are in the past.

    We can address the actual problems that effect those who are (or supposedly are) effected by "structural discrimination".

    Like:

    Poor education.

    Low job availability.

    These and others are the true reason that some people have less chance of entering and succeeding in college, or a trade.

    And, IMO, the proper way to address both above mentioned issues (and several others) is to streamline, revamp, and otherwise remodel the entire public education system (as those most effected by the current education issues are those who cannot afford private education anyway).

    That said, parental involvement is a key part of education and child development.

    And issues with it are part of the reason for the education issues.

    Not sure of the exact reasons.
    I can agree with that, but in the mean time we should continue to pursue affirmative action since these injustes at the present time exist.

  10. #90
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Leveling the playing field would mean removing structural discrimination. Look at the definition. Fairness is different on the other hand. Which is why we have placed quite a few restrictions on affirmative action. Like the ones turtledude pointed out.
    You've still failed to show a modern day example of 'structural discrimination'.
    Statistics do NOT point to the problem. They point to statistics. There could be a number of problems unrelated to being discriminated against that contribute to the problem.

    Show me where there is structural racism please.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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