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  • Yes, this os unfair to white students

    38 79.17%
  • No, this is fair to whites since it is additional enrollment

    5 10.42%
  • Maybe. I can see the arguments for both sides, it's not clear cut

    3 6.25%
  • Other

    2 4.17%
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Thread: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

  1. #71
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This is a hypothetical, though it may very well be something some schools do. Please read the situation and respond accordingly.

    A college decides to increase it's overall enrollment by 100 students, but those 100 students would be selected only from minorities. All other enrollment would be decided based on the same process as in the past, with the 100 students being the best of the minority students who would not normally get accepted at the school due to grades or test scores or whatever.

    Would white students and potential white students have a legitimate grievance that this is unfair to them?
    I see no reason why this would be necessary. When I visit college campuses (campii?), I see a very proportional amount of minority students attending. Possibly even more than proportional. We already have funding and loan programs aimed directly at minorities. This would be overkill.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    So you are okay with some affirmative action? Those who need to learn because we never taught them before should get help. I guess I can understand your point since some non-minority kids may have a similar problem, but I doubt this would be because of past discrimination. No doubt other factors can play into the situation, and helping a nonminority is not any more noble than helping a minority, but I do not see why treating people as a group instead of as a distinct individual is necessarily bad.
    Well I have no problems helping people who want the help. But colleges are institutions of higher learning. There is no place for basic education needs that should have been met in k-12 levels. Now I realize that public schools(as well as some home situations) are increasingly becoming inadequate for producing people who are able to tackle the rigors of higher education. So I wouldn't mind funding for places where people decide they need to learn some of those skills they did not get in high school for whatever reason. But college is not the place to learn how to read or do simple math.
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Is this college private or public?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Can you explain your reasoning? In the situation, white student enrollment would be unaffected. I am not saying ai disagree with you, just pointing out the argument.
    of course it violates Title VII since white students are excluded from those spots by virtue of their color.

    Can you imagine if a fire department said it was going to add 100 additional spots and only blacks could apply?



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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Is this college private or public?
    good point but if a private school accepts federal funding it is within the coverage of title VII



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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    How is affirmative action discrimination? It results in lowering structural discrimination. If past discrimination is making it very hard for a minority to find its way into universities, simply freezing the status quo is resulting in discrimination to that minority. What is the difference to a person if past discrimination has made it impossible to get into a university or if a case of deliberate racial discrimination makes it impossible? The hypothetical in the OP I may not agree with since it sets a strict quota, but I don't think the principle is wrong.
    There are hundreds of thousands of black college graduates. Most of them did not make it into school on affirmative action. Blacks do not need institutional racism in order to suceed.

    Saying that they do makes your views on racial equality suspect.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    There are hundreds of thousands of black college graduates. Most of them did not make it into school on affirmative action. Blacks do not need institutional racism in order to suceed.

    Saying that they do makes your views on racial equality suspect.
    Not all have used affirmative action to get in, of course. I believe you are comitting the fallicy of composition however, since it can be statistically shown that minority groups still trail whites in educational attainment. Blacks have gained considerable ground, as have other minorities, but some structural discrimination still exists. I believe hispancis now have the largest gap for minority groups.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Not all have used affirmative action to get in, of course. I believe you are comitting the fallicy of composition however, since it can be statistically shown that minority groups still trail whites in educational attainment. Blacks have gained considerable ground, as have other minorities, but some structural discrimination still exists. I believe hispancis now have the largest gap for minority groups.
    So because statistics show blacks trailing whites in educational attainment that MUST equal "structural discrimination"???

    Can you give direct proof of this claim?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So because statistics show blacks trailing whites in educational attainment that MUST equal "structural discrimination"???

    Can you give direct proof of this claim?
    Stuctural discrimination is defined as:

    The intractable social and economic patters of american society, created by generations of injustice, through which poorer education, lower expectations, and instinctive and unacknowleged prejudice ensure that race continuos to be a dominant, pervasive factor affecting the lifetime prospects of individual citizens. -Ronald Dworkin, Freedoms Law
    A trailing education attainment would be contributing to structural discrimination.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    of course it violates Title VII since white students are excluded from those spots by virtue of their color.

    Can you imagine if a fire department said it was going to add 100 additional spots and only blacks could apply?
    Fairness is a concern, which is why I disagree with the OP since it sets a strict quota for getting certain minorities into the univeristy. The principle behind affirmative action is sound though.
    Last edited by drz-400; 06-06-10 at 11:19 PM.

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