View Poll Results: Read the question and respond accordingly.

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, this os unfair to white students

    38 79.17%
  • No, this is fair to whites since it is additional enrollment

    5 10.42%
  • Maybe. I can see the arguments for both sides, it's not clear cut

    3 6.25%
  • Other

    2 4.17%
Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 97

Thread: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

  1. #61
    Baby Eating Monster
    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    18,709
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    And something need to figure out how to do in order to help this is start holding parents accountable. ... Children have to be encouraged to have a desire to learn, and it needs to come from somewhere other than the classroom if it is to be sucessful.
    People tend to overlook that the education of children is primarily the parents' responsibility. The public schools exist to assist those parents who cannot provide for their own childrens' education, but they cannot replace the role of active parents.

  2. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Last Seen
    04-01-13 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    16,881
    Blog Entries
    19

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    I voted other. You can not correct racial discrimination by practicing racial discrimination.

    I think there are better ways of solving the problem within the enumerations of the constitution, which affirmative action is not.

  3. #63
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-23-17 @ 05:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    15,429
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    I think the whole premise of they hypothetical situation is wrong to begin with. "Additional" enrollment shouldn't exist anywhere. You just have the max enrollment you can afford with the resources you have at your disposal. That can increase or decrease. So if a school decides it can increase its enrollment by 100, but says it will only offer those slots to certain races/sex/income level, when it comes time to cut enrollment are they going to cut out those first 100? Or in order to keep their precious "diversity" are they going to cut 100 "white" spots?

    There should be no mention of race on a college application. Race is not a factor that determines ability, work ethic, community involvement, and achievement. Those are the qualities you look for in a student, rather than skin color. Colleges should accept on merit, and merit alone.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  4. #64
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Past discrimination is never a justification for current discrimination.

    Two wrongs don't make a right.
    How is affirmative action discrimination? It results in lowering structural discrimination. If past discrimination is making it very hard for a minority to find its way into universities, simply freezing the status quo is resulting in discrimination to that minority. What is the difference to a person if past discrimination has made it impossible to get into a university or if a case of deliberate racial discrimination makes it impossible? The hypothetical in the OP I may not agree with since it sets a strict quota, but I don't think the principle is wrong.

  5. #65
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I think the whole premise of they hypothetical situation is wrong to begin with. "Additional" enrollment shouldn't exist anywhere. You just have the max enrollment you can afford with the resources you have at your disposal. That can increase or decrease. So if a school decides it can increase its enrollment by 100, but says it will only offer those slots to certain races/sex/income level, when it comes time to cut enrollment are they going to cut out those first 100? Or in order to keep their precious "diversity" are they going to cut 100 "white" spots?

    There should be no mention of race on a college application. Race is not a factor that determines ability, work ethic, community involvement, and achievement. Those are the qualities you look for in a student, rather than skin color. Colleges should accept on merit, and merit alone.
    I would agree in a perfect world, but sometimes past discrimination results in lower ability community involvement and achievement. Thats why just eliminating subjective discrimination may not actually help the group that was discriminated against. Here's an extreme exampe to prove my point. In early america we had slaves and we never let them read because they were slaves. Now think one day we decided it was wrong and we can no longer discriminate. How is this going to change their chances to get into a university based on merit if none of them can read?

  6. #66
    Clown Prince of Politics
    Psychoclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hiding from the voices in my head.
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 09:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,738

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    If we let a bunch of people into a university who can't read, how well do you think they will do? Oh wait, we can answer this question based on real world evidence. Students who don't meet the normal entrance standards but get in due to "diversity" programs tend to flunk out at a much higher rate. Meaning we wasted precious resources in the name of the sacred cow of diversity and got nothing in return.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

  7. #67
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    04-23-17 @ 05:59 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    15,429
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I would agree in a perfect world, but sometimes past discrimination results in lower ability community involvement and achievement. Thats why just eliminating subjective discrimination may not actually help the group that was discriminated against. Here's an extreme exampe to prove my point. In early america we had slaves and we never let them read because they were slaves. Now think one day we decided it was wrong and we can no longer discriminate. How is this going to change their chances to get into a university based on merit if none of them can read?
    Well the good thing is, is that we provided education somewhere in the k-12 levels where they were taught to read. If you can't read now days, you don't belong in college period. Regardless of past discrimination.

    You can create other programs aimed at helping those people learn to read, write, do math etc...not a problem. But it shouldn't be race based either, but need based.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  8. #68
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    If we let a bunch of people into a university who can't read, how well do you think they will do? Oh wait, we can answer this question based on real world evidence. Students who don't meet the normal entrance standards but get in due to "diversity" programs tend to flunk out at a much higher rate. Meaning we wasted precious resources in the name of the sacred cow of diversity and got nothing in return.
    Oh really, thats why it was an exteme example. How would we educate the slaves for example then? Or are you ok with a large amount of the remaining structural discrimination. They obviously can't read because we never let them before, it has nothing to do with there abilities to learn.
    Last edited by drz-400; 06-06-10 at 01:15 PM.

  9. #69
    Professor

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    North Dakota
    Last Seen
    09-02-17 @ 08:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    2,357

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Well the good thing is, is that we provided education somewhere in the k-12 levels where they were taught to read. If you can't read now days, you don't belong in college period. Regardless of past discrimination.

    You can create other programs aimed at helping those people learn to read, write, do math etc...not a problem. But it shouldn't be race based either, but need based.
    So you are okay with some affirmative action? Those who need to learn because we never taught them before should get help. I guess I can understand your point since some non-minority kids may have a similar problem, but I doubt this would be because of past discrimination. No doubt other factors can play into the situation, and helping a nonminority is not any more noble than helping a minority, but I do not see why treating people as a group instead of as a distinct individual is necessarily bad.

  10. #70
    Clown Prince of Politics
    Psychoclown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hiding from the voices in my head.
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 09:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    1,738

    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Because treating people as groups ignores the fact that some blacks are just as well off and advantaged as richest white kid and some whites are just as gripped by poverty and ignorance as blacks in the worst inner city ghettos. You're right in saying there is nothing more noble in helping a non-minority than there is in helping a minority, but that cuts both ways. Helping a minority is also no more noble than helping non-minorities. Helping PEOPLE is what is noble.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •