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  • Yes, this os unfair to white students

    38 79.17%
  • No, this is fair to whites since it is additional enrollment

    5 10.42%
  • Maybe. I can see the arguments for both sides, it's not clear cut

    3 6.25%
  • Other

    2 4.17%
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Thread: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

  1. #91
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    So are we discriminating when we seperate people into groups by age for public education, or Social Security?
    What about boy or girl?
    Employmeny status?
    Are we discriminating when we decide to provide welfare, since they are means tested and only apply to those with low incomes?
    The reasons are not unknown if we accept that some structural discrimination exists.
    Welfare does not give anyone an incentive to get out there and work.
    And by your last sentence you are basically saying that since we don't know what the problem is, we will blame it on discrimination, and then discriminate in order to fix a problem that we don't know the answer to?



    I can agree with that, but in the mean time we should continue to pursue affirmative action since these injustes at the present time exist.
    Show me an example of these injustices that Affirmative Action is the answer to.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #92
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    So are we discriminating when we separate people into groups by age for public education, or Social Security?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    What about boy or girl?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Employment status?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Are we discriminating when we decide to provide welfare, since they are means tested and only apply to those with low incomes?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    The reasons are not unknown if we accept that some structural discrimination exists.
    True, but I have yet to accept such.


    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I can agree with that, but in the mean time we should continue to pursue affirmative action since these injustice at the present time exist.
    I completely disagree.


    I think AA causes more issues that in solves.

    Far more.

    Damned edit box scroll issues.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #93
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Welfare does not give anyone an incentive to get out there and work.
    And by your last sentence you are basically saying that since we don't know what the problem is, we will blame it on discrimination, and then discriminate in order to fix a problem that we don't know the answer to?




    Show me an example of these injustices that Affirmative Action is the answer to.
    I am extremely confused. Why should I have to find a specific case of discrimination to prove a more general form of injustice? I am sure you would agree some discrimination exists today.

    I have shown you that minorities trail in educational attainment. Why else would a specific minority be falling behind? Do you think some minorities are simply not as smart, or bad at making money? I know you don't, I have heard you say it yourself.

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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    How does using discrimination based on race to try and correct (after the fact) past discrimination based on race equal anything good?

    It just doesn't make any sense to me.
    Last edited by The Mark; 06-09-10 at 10:42 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #95
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I am extremely confused. Why should I have to find a specific case of discrimination to prove a more general form of injustice? I am sure you would agree some discrimination exists today.

    I have shown you that minorities trail in educational attainment. Why else would a specific minority be falling behind? Do you think some minorities are simply not as smart, or bad at making money? I know you don't, I have heard you say it yourself.
    So, you have shown me that minorities trail in educational attainment.....

    You have failed to show that has anything to do with discrimination.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #96
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So, you have shown me that minorities trail in educational attainment.....

    You have failed to show that has anything to do with discrimination.
    What do you want me to do? In 1996 john smith was not allowed to go to school because of race, because of this his kids never grew up in the same way everyone Else's did. Why do I need to find a specific example? Why does it have to be the result of subjective discrimination?

    Why else would educational attainment be decided by what race someone is? The structure of society is contributing to this injustice. It has nothing to do with deliberate, subjective discrimination today. The statistics show that the injustice is happening.

    That be like saying:

    Statistics show that the handicapped don't have enough handicapped parking spots. This is a form of structural discrimination. We should make more handicapped parking spots for the handicapped.

    Why should we care why they don't have enough parking spots? I don't need to prove why they don't have enough parking spots to prove they don't have enough parking spots. Am I discriminating, maybe, is it wrong in this case, I don't think so.

  7. #97
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    Re: Hypothetical: Additional Enrollemnt for Minorities in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    What do you want me to do? In 1996 john smith was not allowed to go to school because of race, because of this his kids never grew up in the same way everyone Else's did. Why do I need to find a specific example? Why does it have to be the result of subjective discrimination?

    Why else would educational attainment be decided by what race someone is? The structure of society is contributing to this injustice. It has nothing to do with deliberate, subjective discrimination today. The statistics show that the injustice is happening.

    That be like saying:

    Statistics show that the handicapped don't have enough handicapped parking spots. This is a form of structural discrimination. We should make more handicapped parking spots for the handicapped.

    Why should we care why they don't have enough parking spots? I don't need to prove why they don't have enough parking spots to prove they don't have enough parking spots. Am I discriminating, maybe, is it wrong in this case, I don't think so.
    Because showing that minorities are behind in educational attainment does not equal discrimination.
    Discrimination is an entirely seperate act that you must prove. You cant just look at statistics and ASSume that discrimination is the problem. Which is what you are doing.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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