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Thread: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And yet the court has been reversed as things are seen later to be just that, unconstitutional.

    The SCOTUS is not perfect or infallible.

    History is a damn good teacher, and has proved this to be fact.
    I think you're missing my point.

    Does the Supreme Court make terrible decisions that go against the Constitution and require amendments and other fixes, including having later courts overrule them? YES of course, obviously.

    Does this mean that the Supreme Court's decisions at the time ARE Unconstitutional? NO because the court cannot make a decision that is unconstitutional under the law. If they decide that the Constitution says X, then under the law that's what it says -- at least until the court changes its mind or we amend the Constitution.

    Legally speaking, a court's decision CANNOT be Unconstitutional. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

    However, that doesn't mean we can't in our opinion (and even in the court's own dissenting opinion) hold that the decision violates the Constitution. But technically, it's NOT.

    So NO, the Court CANNOT be Unconstitutional. But it sure can be WRONG.

    Does that help clarify what I am trying to say? Maybe I'm just being too literal. Or legal.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    I think you're missing my point.

    Does the Supreme Court make terrible decisions that go against the Constitution and require amendments and other fixes, including having later courts overrule them? YES of course, obviously.

    Does this mean that the Supreme Court's decisions at the time ARE Unconstitutional? NO because the court cannot make a decision that is unconstitutional under the law. If they decide that the Constitution says X, then under the law that's what it says -- at least until the court changes its mind or we amend the Constitution.

    Legally speaking, a court's decision CANNOT be Unconstitutional. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

    However, that doesn't mean we can't in our opinion (and even in the court's own dissenting opinion) hold that the decision violates the Constitution. But technically, it's NOT.

    So NO, the Court CANNOT be Unconstitutional. But it sure can be WRONG.

    Does that help clarify what I am trying to say? Maybe I'm just being too literal. Or legal.
    I see your point but as with most people wrong = unconstitutional.

    So legally I agree, but we are not talking strict terms here. Yes they have made rulings that were later to be found unconstitutional. So I still say yes.
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    No, it shows a basic understanding of what Constitutional means.

    The question was not "Does the Supreme Court ever make decisions that, in your opinion, are incorrect and go against the Constitution?" Even I would agree with that.

    The question was whether a Supreme Court decision CAN be unconstitutional. The only answer is NO. It is IMPOSSIBLE. If the Supreme Court says "this is what the Constitution means" then legally that's what it means. We can all disagree with their decision, but that doesn't make it unconstitutional.
    Oh picky, picky picky.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    I did not say Paine signed it. It is contained in his writing, "Crisis", either I or II. Actually what he said was "rule from beyond the grave", when he was referring to the laws of dead kings. If the constitution were not a living document then we would not be able to amend it and there would still be slavery, for example, or, senators would be chosen and not elected.
    So what? Lots of folks have written lots of things about the Constitution, most of it as inconsequential as your hero, Paine.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    And yet the court has been reversed as things are seen later to be just that, unconstitutional.

    The SCOTUS is not perfect or infallible.

    History is a damn good teacher, and has proved this to be fact.
    This could also mean that the meaning of the constitution has changed, in a legal sense.

    Which, in practice, it does. I am less concerned with the right and wrongness of a decision and am more concerned about the legalities of it.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-01-10 at 09:01 PM.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    So what? Lots of folks have written lots of things about the Constitution, most of it as inconsequential as your hero, Paine.
    It's ovious that you know little about Paine. His "Crisis" pamphlet is credited with boosting the morale of the American revolution army and has been acknowledged even by George Washington for it.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Perhaps if a supreme court justice accepted a bribe, especially from a foreign leader, and was caught it could be considered unconstitutional. Maybe, just saying.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Perhaps if a supreme court justice accepted a bribe, especially from a foreign leader for ahis opinion , and was caught it could be considered unconstitutional. Maybe, just saying.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    It's ovious that you know little about Paine. His "Crisis" pamphlet is credited with boosting the morale of the American revolution army and has been acknowledged even by George Washington for it.
    And he wrote Common Sense. So what?

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Technically, no. Who decides whether an opinion is unconstitutional? The Supreme Court. It's a catch 22.

    In my opinion, have they ever made decisions that run counter to the Constitution? Of course (including the one today about Miranda).

    in the long run though someone has to be the "decider" at the top, and it's them.
    I disagree that the decision on Miranda today is unconstitutional.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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