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Thread: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

  1. #61
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Of course it can.

    If the constitution changes, per amendments, a previous ruling in accordance with the constitution can be unconstitutional under the new constitution.

    Further, a SCOTUS can rule one way, only to be overturned as unconstitutional by a later SCOTUS.
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Looking over my copy I don't see Paine's signature....

    Perhaps you have the libtard version of the Constitution, written in smudged red crayon.
    I did not say Paine signed it. It is contained in his writing, "Crisis", either I or II. Actually what he said was "rule from beyond the grave", when he was referring to the laws of dead kings. If the constitution were not a living document then we would not be able to amend it and there would still be slavery, for example, or, senators would be chosen and not elected.
    Last edited by LiberalAvenger; 06-01-10 at 06:45 PM.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    All this thread shows, once again, is how few people understand the law and the Constitution.
    Actually it shows that the majority here are fairly intelligent and know quite a bit about our Constitution and government. It also shows they understand that men make mistakes and are not infallible.

    The arrogance of your statement is incredible.

    The majority of people here are not the "unwashed masses" as most are educated and keep abreast of politics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    I did not say Paine signed it. It is contained in his writing, "Crisis", either I or II. Actually what he said was "rule from beyond the grave", when he was referring to the laws of dead kings. If the constitution were not a living document then we would not be able to amend it and there would still be slavery, for example, or, senators would be chosen and not elected.
    I used to think like SM on that one. You are correct in my opinion. The ability to amend and change it does make it more of a living document.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I used to think like SM on that one. You are correct in my opinion. The ability to amend and change it does make it more of a living document.
    I would argue that that cuts in the exact opposite direction.

    If they had said that the text of the constitution could not be amended in any way, it might seem logical to conclude that its interpretation could change over time, as that would be the only way for such a broad document to survive for so long.

    However, because they provided a very particular way by which the Constitution could be changed, that would indicate to me that they believed that if new rights needed to be created, the way to do so would be through the duly provided amendment process. Put another way, the amendment process would be read as the exclusive remedy for changing the meaning of the constitution.
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Yes. A Supreme Court ruling can be deemed unconstitutional. As such, a ruling can be reversed. Seldom happens as some examples mentioned clearly indicate, but when it does the nation gets turned on its ear! Hence, it's important for the SC to get their decisions right the first and hopefully only time around.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I would argue that that cuts in the exact opposite direction.

    If they had said that the text of the constitution could not be amended in any way, it might seem logical to conclude that its interpretation could change over time, as that would be the only way for such a broad document to survive for so long.

    However, because they provided a very particular way by which the Constitution could be changed, that would indicate to me that they believed that if new rights needed to be created, the way to do so would be through the duly provided amendment process. Put another way, the amendment process would be read as the exclusive remedy for changing the meaning of the constitution.
    Hard or easy changes can be made. It is living politically if changes can be made.

    For example it took a group considered property and made them citizens according to the Constitution when they were not before. That is a HUGE change.

    I see your point, I just don't agree.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-01-10 at 07:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I would argue that that cuts in the exact opposite direction.

    If they had said that the text of the constitution could not be amended in any way, it might seem logical to conclude that its interpretation could change over time, as that would be the only way for such a broad document to survive for so long.

    However, because they provided a very particular way by which the Constitution could be changed, that would indicate to me that they believed that if new rights needed to be created, the way to do so would be through the duly provided amendment process. Put another way, the amendment process would be read as the exclusive remedy for changing the meaning of the constitution.
    Actually it's not about the changing the "meaning" of the constitution. It's about changing certain enumerations of the constitution to conform to the realities of evolution.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Actually it shows that the majority here are fairly intelligent and know quite a bit about our Constitution and government. It also shows they understand that men make mistakes and are not infallible.

    The arrogance of your statement is incredible.

    The majority of people here are not the "unwashed masses" as most are educated and keep abreast of politics.
    No, it shows a basic understanding of what Constitutional means.

    The question was not "Does the Supreme Court ever make decisions that, in your opinion, are incorrect and go against the Constitution?" Even I would agree with that.

    The question was whether a Supreme Court decision CAN be unconstitutional. The only answer is NO. It is IMPOSSIBLE. If the Supreme Court says "this is what the Constitution means" then legally that's what it means. We can all disagree with their decision, but that doesn't make it unconstitutional.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    No, it shows a basic understanding of what Constitutional means.

    The question was not "Does the Supreme Court ever make decisions that, in your opinion, are incorrect and go against the Constitution?" Even I would agree with that.

    The question was whether a Supreme Court decision CAN be unconstitutional. The only answer is NO. It is IMPOSSIBLE. If the Supreme Court says "this is what the Constitution means" then legally that's what it means. We can all disagree with their decision, but that doesn't make it unconstitutional.
    And yet the court has been reversed as things are seen later to be just that, unconstitutional.

    The SCOTUS is not perfect or infallible.

    History is a damn good teacher, and has proved this to be fact.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-01-10 at 07:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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