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Thread: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

  1. #161
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    You forgot methane.
    Nope, that's why I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    It is my opinion that we breath both Oxygen AND Nitrogen, not to mention several other gasses.
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Nope, that's why I said:
    Ok, ok!

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    And I was responding that while a broken law may be a fact, the law itself is an opinion, which ties back in with our previous discussion.
    Whatever, be in denial and keep being ignorant, the bottom line is you admitted I was right and proved my point for me.

  4. #164
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    Whatever, be in denial and keep being ignorant, the bottom line is you admitted I was right and proved my point for me.
    You made several points, and while I conceded that you were correct in one of them, namely that "if you break a law, it's a matter of fact, not opinion"…

    I have yet to concede (and have no plans to do so) the original point you made, that "if the government made a law restricting free speech, it would be in fact unconstitutional".

    I still contend that all laws are opinion, and additionally that what is or is not constitutional is a matter of opinion.

    I can hope that the vast majority holds the opinion that restrictions on free speech are unconstitutional, but I don’t trust the majority to know free speech restrictions when they see em’.
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The problem is that you're lumping all types of judicial interpretation together, and saying that because some judicial interpretation is necessary, that means the judiciary can (and should) interpret the Constitution however it wants, which makes it a living document.

    It's entirely possible to have a Supreme Court that interprets the Constitution (and other laws) but that refrains from treating the Constitution as a living document. The concept of a living constitution didn't even come into being until the 20th century.
    Maybe I'm making a mistake I was assuming you were using judicial interpretation and living document to mean the same thing. As in a judiciary being allowed to interpret means it is a living document. I'm I wrong there? I don't want to define your argument for you, so what exactly do you mean by living document?

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Hmmm, I'll have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion, Wiseone. They intended us to change the constitution and gave us a means to do so: the amendment ratification process. What they did not intend us to do was change our interpretation of what has already been written when it is convenient for personal political beliefs.
    "Our interpretation?" You're assuming that there has been some period where the interpretation of the Constitution was agreed upon and univserally held, that's never been the case for a single moment in the Constitution's history. Like I said, even those who wrote, signed, and ratified the Constitution couldnt even agree on its meaning, and many people present and its creation and ratification refused to support it.

    I do agree however that the amendment process was not one which was meant to be done quickly or easily.

  7. #167
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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    The SCOTUS was never supposed to be the supreme arbiter of the US Constitution; Marshall hoodwinked judicial review in 1803.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    If the supreme court decides on what is constitutional and what isn't in their rulings. Can their rulings be unconstitutional?
    The supreme court ruled against Dred Scott, so obviously, a supreme court decision can be ruled unconstitutional.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Can a supreme court ruling be unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    "Our interpretation?" You're assuming that there has been some period where the interpretation of the Constitution was agreed upon and univserally held, that's never been the case for a single moment in the Constitution's history. Like I said, even those who wrote, signed, and ratified the Constitution couldnt even agree on its meaning, and many people present and its creation and ratification refused to support it.

    I do agree however that the amendment process was not one which was meant to be done quickly or easily.
    Very excellent point. My initial point was unclear - I simply meant to say that we have, in the past century, significantly changed our interpretation of the constitution to support our political beliefs as individuals. Often to the point that the interpretation of one clause is a direct contradiction of a very clear clause elsewhere in the constitution.

    Our politicians stretch the interpretation to justify bills and our court system allows it because the justices are more concerned with supporting their beliefs than the constitution itself. We turn a blind eye on what the original intent was. The founding fathers left room for interpretation so that it could mean anything from 1-10. But we are pushing it to mean 20. I don't know if I made my point any more clear.

    In the end, I agree that it is up for interpretation, of course. That is the job of the Supreme Court Justices. But they (politicians and justices) aren't doing the job assigned to them. They are doing the job they would prefer to be doing personally.

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