View Poll Results: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

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  • no regulation

    6 16.67%
  • regulate for safety

    26 72.22%
  • level the playing field

    8 22.22%
  • penalize unwanted industry

    5 13.89%
  • strengthen government

    3 8.33%
  • reasonable costs so businesses can thrive

    16 44.44%
  • moderate to severe regulations to control industry

    2 5.56%
  • help nationalize industry by placing undue burdens on businesses

    1 2.78%
  • other...

    7 19.44%
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Thread: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

  1. #11
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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    My core question is: is there such a thing as too much regulation? How do we determine where that point is, industry to industry?

    How do we identify too much regulation and deregulate?

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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    My core question is: is there such a thing as too much regulation? How do we determine where that point is, industry to industry?

    How do we identify too much regulation and deregulate?
    I guess the questions I would ask about any regulation would be:
    A) Does this regulation effectively serve the public's needs in some way?
    B) Are the public's needs for this regulation important enough that they outweigh the inherent economic burden that comes from increased regulations?

    If the answer to either of those questions is "no," then I would probably oppose the regulation as being excessive.
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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I am very surprised by your answer here. When it come to the military, I have no problems with changes to policy allowing women into new areas like submarine crews. The military has no problems with minorities. But to use regulation on industry for social engineering is very wrong. It is like Affirmative Action on steroids. If minorities and women are qualified for a position, they will get it and make headway for those behind them.
    I used to be against affirmative action, but not so much anymore. But it's not just minorities and women I think this should be applied to, but also those in poverty, no matter their race or gender. In fact it is those who I'd prefer affirmative action be applied to.

    And the reason why I favor affirmative action is because, like I said, I think those groups should have better access to those occupations. I don't want anything like a quota system or anything, but I do think it would help in ending ethnic poverty. We have come a long way in this country, but I don't think we are yet where we need to be. That's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    There already are other financial centers like Charlotte, NC. You were planning on having a planned city?
    No, not making a planned city. More like making the finance industries more regionalized so Wall Street isn't the only place Congress goes to for advice on how to regulate our financial markets.

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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No regulation. I mean, only pollution right now since we don't have adequate legal channels to deal with it yet.
    The difference is that regulations are proactive while the legal system is reactive. If I eat a burger that's toxic and then sue, I've already been harmed and the makers already have my money. If there is a food inspector checking to make sure the restaurant is using proper sanitary practices, I don't get sick in the first place and the restaurant doesn't have to worry about being sued.
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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I used to be against affirmative action, but not so much anymore. But it's not just minorities and women I think this should be applied to, but also those in poverty, no matter their race or gender. In fact it is those who I'd prefer affirmative action be applied to.

    And the reason why I favor affirmative action is because, like I said, I think those groups should have better access to those occupations. I don't want anything like a quota system or anything, but I do think it would help in ending ethnic poverty. We have come a long way in this country, but I don't think we are yet where we need to be. That's all.
    How would you implement this if not with a quota system. "Oh your poor and less educated but we'll hire you to help your socioeconomic prospects?" That's ridiculous. You can't regulate poor people to prosperity.

    The solution for the poor in America is to stop bitching about a "white man's education" or a "rich man's education" and get educated.

    No, not making a planned city. More like making the finance industries more regionalized so Wall Street isn't the only place Congress goes to for advice on how to regulate our financial markets.
    You want to use regulation to design the distribution of financial centers and where smart people educated in finance and securities live?

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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I used to be against affirmative action, but not so much anymore. But it's not just minorities and women I think this should be applied to, but also those in poverty, no matter their race or gender. In fact it is those who I'd prefer affirmative action be applied to.

    And the reason why I favor affirmative action is because, like I said, I think those groups should have better access to those occupations. I don't want anything like a quota system or anything, but I do think it would help in ending ethnic poverty. We have come a long way in this country, but I don't think we are yet where we need to be. That's all.
    I'd rather have the best candidate get the job. Screw their race. People focus too much on race. We are all humans.

    I should say I am fully against discrimination of any kind, however businesses should not be required to prove they aren't discriminatory through the act of hiring minorities just to fill a quota. Many businesses in my field will hire a minority or a woman over a white man... who's being discriminated against now?
    Last edited by Jucon; 05-31-10 at 09:47 PM.

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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    How would you implement this if not with a quota system. "Oh your poor and less educated but we'll hire you to help your socioeconomic prospects?" That's ridiculous. You can't regulate poor people to prosperity.

    The solution for the poor in America is to stop bitching about a "white man's education" or a "rich man's education" and get educated.
    Not sure. I don't want to regulate poor people to prosperity. I want to regulate poor people so that have better opportunities for prosperity. There's a difference.

    One thing I would like is to make the first 4 years, or the equivalent in credits, of college, university, or trade school paid for by taxes for all Americans instead of them relying on student loans or scholarships. That way we can ensure that all people have the opportunity for a basic college education. That will help people get the formal educational and occupational training they need for employment nowadays. By limiting it to only the first 4 years, anyone who screws up the first time and tries to go again will have to pay for it himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    You want to use regulation to design the distribution of financial centers and where smart people educated in finance and securities live?
    Maybe not regulate, but rather offer incentives. Instead of concentrating certain key occupations like that in one area, spread them out to other regions. I think doing so would help boost those particular regions and diversify the people we have involved in those industries, such as financial markets. Whenever Congress does investigations into the finance industry, I don't see why most of the feedback they get should be from NYC even though the laws will affect the entire nation. That was my point.

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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Not sure. I don't want to regulate poor people to prosperity. I want to regulate poor people so that have better opportunities for prosperity. There's a difference.
    To me, this is not a proper use of regulation. Here in America we have certain freedoms so that our hard efforts will be rewarded. Rewarding people who haven't earned it in hopes of changing their futures, through the action of the government, and this includes Affirmative Action, infringes on the freedom of others and is absolutely wrong. It violates Equal Protection.

    Poor people can work hard themselves to change their fortunes. See any recent immigrant group to see how to do it. Hard work and education.

    One thing I would like is to make the first 4 years, or the equivalent in credits, of college, university, or trade school paid for by taxes for all Americans instead of them relying on student loans or scholarships. That way we can ensure that all people have the opportunity for a basic college education. That will help people get the formal educational and occupational training they need for employment nowadays. By limiting it to only the first 4 years, anyone who screws up the first time and tries to go again will have to pay for it himself.
    Absolutely not. This is another entitlement. It is bad enough that K - 12 is funded by tax payers. If someone without means wants a college education, they will have to do well in high school. That will make them eligible for scholarships. Then there is always the military. I earned $40,000 in the Army and payed for half of my school. There are loans as well. If they have the drive they can accomplish it. The problem largely rests with the fact that the poor do not have the drive to do well in high school or shoot for a college education. If they are lucky, they will learn a skill and be plumbers, electricians, construction, or other trades. You can make decent livings in those fields.

    Maybe not regulate, but rather offer incentives. Instead of concentrating certain key occupations like that in one area, spread them out to other regions. I think doing so would help boost those particular regions and diversify the people we have involved in those industries, such as financial markets. Whenever Congress does investigations into the finance industry, I don't see why most of the feedback they get should be from NYC even though the laws will affect the entire nation. That was my point.
    This happens by the regions themselves. Charlotte spends money to entice financial companies to do business there. This should not be something the federal government gets involved with.

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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    To me, this is not a proper use of regulation. Here in America we have certain freedoms so that our hard efforts will be rewarded. Rewarding people who haven't earned it in hopes of changing their futures, through the action of the government, and this includes Affirmative Action, infringes on the freedom of others and is absolutely wrong. It violates Equal Protection.

    Poor people can work hard themselves to change their fortunes. See any recent immigrant group to see how to do it. Hard work and education.

    Absolutely not. This is another entitlement. It is bad enough that K - 12 is funded by tax payers. If someone without means wants a college education, they will have to do well in high school. That will make them eligible for scholarships. Then there is always the military. I earned $40,000 in the Army and payed for half of my school. There are loans as well. If they have the drive they can accomplish it. The problem largely rests with the fact that the poor do not have the drive to do well in high school or shoot for a college education. If they are lucky, they will learn a skill and be plumbers, electricians, construction, or other trades. You can make decent livings in those fields.
    It's not that the poor don't have the drive to do well in high school or shoot for a college education. Or rather, that is not the only reason. For some, it's cultural; for others, it's because of family influence; for others, it's because they have disabilities, such as mental illness; for yet others, it is because of regional differences in industries.

    And yes, we do give PreK - High school education paid for by taxpayers. And we do that because we have an economic interest in providing opportunities for education to our people. Originally, public schools was formed so that children would be able to do basic reading, writing, and arithmetic so that they would be able to read directions on the use of such things as fertilizers and calculate how much of which components they would need to apply the fertilizer to their fields.

    We started public school in order to have an educated populace that is easier to train for occupations necessary for our well-being. As our society has advanced, so has the requirements for basic occupations. For example, plumbers no longer learn how to put pipes together. They also have to learn the environmental impacts of sewage. This requires even basic tradesmen to have a higher quality of education than previous.

    I'd also like to point out a report I read one time. They took different factors of death row inmates and calculated common factors between them. The number one common factors between criminals sentenced for death was a lack of education.

    So providing easier and better opportunities for education will not only help reduce criminals (since most criminals commit crimes because it is an easier way they can make an income, and thus there's an economic factor to crime) it will also ensure that we have an educated and trained populace that can pursue occupations and thus earn a living.

    Basically what I'm saying is that the best way to get people off of food stamps is to ensure they get professional occupational training and education so they have the opportunity to get hired. Considering this will increase the economic benefits of the entire country for having an educated and skill populace, and it will reduce the crime rate, I think that's tax money well spent.

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    This happens by the regions themselves. Charlotte spends money to entice financial companies to do business there. This should not be something the federal government gets involved with.
    Okay. Good point.

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    Re: The role of regulation in the US economy, society and government

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I guess the questions I would ask about any regulation would be:
    A) Does this regulation effectively serve the public's needs in some way?
    B) Are the public's needs for this regulation important enough that they outweigh the inherent economic burden that comes from increased regulations?

    If the answer to either of those questions is "no," then I would probably oppose the regulation as being excessive.
    I like this formulation, both A and B. Now the question becomes how do you define the public's needs and its importance?

    As an example, does the public need the detailed financial reporting, from a publicly traded company, specified by Sarbanes-Oxley in order to attempt to stop another Enron scandal from occurring? Is it important enough to outweigh the reporting burden on companies. Many companies would say no as it is a heavy burden.

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