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Gays in the Military

Should the law be changed so that gays can serve openly in the military.

  • Yes, do it now

    Votes: 65 67.7%

  • Yes, but after the Pentagon completes it study on the issue

    Votes: 9 9.4%

  • No, do not change the law

    Votes: 12 12.5%

  • No, DADT should be repealed and gays not allowed to serve at all

    Votes: 3 3.1%

  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 7 7.3%
  • Total voters
    96
I withdraw my statement that gays are mostly anti-military. Whether or not it's true, I can't prove it, so I apologize for making the statement without grounds. However, I will not back down on my point that it is totally wrong not to give the allotted one year to the military and those researching and investigating the effects of disbanding DADT.
 
As my conservative mentor and hero Barry Goldwater said, "I don't care what they do in their own time, so long as they can shoot straight."

I agree. Gays have always been in the military. And they always will be.
 
Rightarrow said:
I withdraw my statement that gays are mostly anti-military. Whether or not it's true, I can't prove it, so I apologize for making the statement without grounds. However, I will not back down on my point that it is totally wrong not to give the allotted one year to the military and those researching and investigating the effects of disbanding DADT.
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I am for allowing gays to serve. However, I don't mind allowing the military to research and investigate the effects of doing so.
 
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samsmart said:
I am for allowing gays to serve. However, I don't mind allowing the military to research and investigate the effects of doing so.
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I just hope no-one protests the budget plus up that will be required for redesigning ships birthing and building new barracks/dorms.
 
mac said:
I just hope no-one protests the budget plus up that will be required for redesigning ships birthing and building new barracks/dorms.
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The ships give birth? Is that where little tugboats come from?
 
mac said:
I just hope no-one protests the budget plus up that will be required for redesigning ships birthing and building new barracks/dorms.
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You are assuming that this will be necessary. It most likely won't be. This is being looked into by the military, but even they have put out that it is more of a formality, because some people have raised concerns about it. They don't really think they need to do this. Society as a whole, places that have accepted openly gay people, and foreign militaries that allow openly gay personnel do not separate their personnel into gays and straights, along with male and female, so why should our military have to do this?
 
roguenuke said:
You are assuming that this will be necessary. It most likely won't be. This is being looked into by the military, but even they have put out that it is more of a formality, because some people have raised concerns about it. They don't really think they need to do this. Society as a whole, places that have accepted openly gay people, and foreign militaries that allow openly gay personnel do not separate their personnel into gays and straights, along with male and female, so why should our military have to do this?
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Society as a whole doesn't have to sleep, shower or otherwise cohabitate with the people they work with.
 
mac said:
Society as a whole doesn't have to sleep, shower or otherwise cohabitate with the people they work with.
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Society, as a whole, does have to share bathrooms with them. And there are a few other jobs where the employees have to shower and change together, such as policemen, firemen, and hospital doctors/employees. I cannot find any place where these professions have separated gays and straights. And I don't know of any gyms that separate gays and straights either. If you would like to show me some legal point where gays and straights were forced to be separated, I'd love to see it.
 
i think not only should we allow gays to serve but women as well and not just military police real infantry same rights. we could have it like the starship troopers movie you know free love in the military. then the right (military) and left (hippies) could make up.
 
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mac said:
Society as a whole doesn't have to sleep, shower or otherwise cohabitate with the people they work with.
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And yet the military has been doing this, with little to no problem, since before I served, and more commonly since DADT was implemented.
 
mac said:
Society as a whole doesn't have to sleep, shower or otherwise cohabitate with the people they work with.
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Thespians, dancers, and other performers shower and change with the people they work with. Truth be told they often sleep and cohabit with them too. Hasn't really been a problem so far. Maybe US soldiers are just too emotionally fragile to meet theatrical standards though.
 
Panache said:
Thespians, dancers, and other performers shower and change with the people they work with. Truth be told they often sleep and cohabit with them too. Hasn't really been a problem so far. Maybe US soldiers are just too emotionally fragile to meet theatrical standards though.
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River guides too.
And firemen
And EMT/Medics

I imagine many other folks too.

It's funny... here we're supposed to think that our military guys are so disciplined, focused, and skilled. Yet it seems that while mainstream society has no issue living, working, or showering with women and men of all sexual orientations... our military folks supposedly do. Are we really to believe that the civilian population is more dedicated and focused than our military is?
 
rivrrat said:
River guides too.
And firemen
And EMT/Medics

I imagine many other folks too.

It's funny... here we're supposed to think that our military guys are so disciplined, focused, and skilled. Yet it seems that while mainstream society has no issue living, working, or showering with women and men of all sexual orientations... our military folks supposedly do. Are we really to believe that the civilian population is more dedicated and focused than our military is?
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Let's say and 18 year old female checks into her first military unit...would you expect her to be housed in a room with a seasoned 25 year old male she has never met and knows nothing about? or for that matter, with 25 males she has never met? A room now, not an apartment.
 
mac said:
Let's say and 18 year old female checks into her first military unit...would you expect her to be housed in a room with a seasoned 25 year old male she has never met and knows nothing about? or for that matter, with 25 males she has never met? A room now, not an apartment.
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Which has what to do with what? Are you implying somehow that gay women are really men? Do you think 25 people in her unit are gay? Do you think it is unlikely that she is going to share berthing with gays under current rules?
 
Redress said:
Which has what to do with what? Are you implying somehow that gay women are really men? Do you think 25 people in her unit are gay? Do you think it is unlikely that she is going to share berthing with gays under current rules?
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i'm not implying anything, I asked a question. Why do we house women and men separately in the military?
 
mac said:
i'm not implying anything, I asked a question. Why do we house women and men separately in the military?
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because the military doesnt support free love
 
mac said:
i'm not implying anything, I asked a question. Why do we house women and men separately in the military?
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To prevent pregnancy?
 
mac said:
It has nothing to do with mitigating the chances of sexual harassment or assault?
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There are rules against both that are strenuously enforced. Gays are currently living with those of the same sex, in the military, and largely without incident. Why do you think this would change?
 
Redress said:
and largely without incident.
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What is "largely without incident" do you have numbers to support? What number of sexual harassment and assaults is acceptable? Is the military free of sexual harassment and assault, either opposite or same sex?

Regardless, no one has actually answered my question....should a newly arrived 18 year old female be housed with males?
 
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mac said:
What is "largely without incident" do you have numbers to support? What number of sexual harassment and assaults is acceptable? Is the military free of sexual harassment and assault, either opposite or same sex?

Regardless, no one has actually answered my question....should a newly arrived 18 year old female be housed with males?
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It means that with people, there will be some incidents. People make mistakes, and young people make more mistakes than older people. Since out military is made up of young people, there are going to be people, strait and gay, who do sexually harass people. We train people on the subject, punish people who still cannot manage, and for the most part are consistent in our handling it. It is similar to drug and alcohol issues in the military. Yes, there are issues, but not to the point of reducing readiness.

The military strives for zero incidence of sexual harassment. No incident is acceptable. That does not mean that incidents won't happen. They will. We still strive for perfection.
 
Redress said:
It means that with people, there will be some incidents. People make mistakes, and young people make more mistakes than older people. Since out military is made up of young people, there are going to be people, strait and gay, who do sexually harass people. We train people on the subject, punish people who still cannot manage, and for the most part are consistent in our handling it. It is similar to drug and alcohol issues in the military. Yes, there are issues, but not to the point of reducing readiness.

The military strives for zero incidence of sexual harassment. No incident is acceptable. That does not mean that incidents won't happen. They will. We still strive for perfection.
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And what is the definition of sexual harrasment? But please, answer the original question...is it acceptable to force an 18 year old female into living with males?
 
mac said:
And what is the definition of sexual harrasment? But please, answer the original question...is it acceptable to force an 18 year old female into living with males?
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You can't do google searches?

Definition of Sexual Harassment (ArmyStudyGuide.com)

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mac said:
And what is the definition of sexual harassment? But please, answer the original question...is it acceptable to force an 18 year old female into living with males?
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Explain why it wouldn't be, in the situation you describe. If the males can’t keep to themselves, they shouldn’t be there anyway.

Also, explain why this hypothetical female would be the only female in the housing unit.
 
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