Our military is a reflection of our society. If over 52% of conservative, 60% of Republicans and 85% of moderates think it's OK. Odds are the military will have similar numbers.
Well, before this you stated what the military thinks as a matter of fact. Now you admit that you merely guess based on your own odds of civilian polls? Well, which is it. Fact or BS? Your percentages have already been proven made up by another member on this thread earlier. Now you admit that your former statement of what the military thinks is based on a personal estimation? You don't have a clue because...... you....are....out.
The gay problem will not even be close to what happened with blacks being integrated.
Who said it would? I stated that it "would have its share" as it is another leap in social acceptance within the ranks. It will be easier and smarter with education and command instruction. Of course we could just do it the Rumsfeld way and have no plan. This would be a part of that "implimentation" you wish the military to be denied of. Which one are you? -Smart or Rumsfeld?
Here is your statement...
It will take time to assimilate the new mind set. In the mean time, what the mouth pieces on both sides (yours and theirs) have to come to realize is that the kind of gays that are willing to wear a uniform in the military, especially the Marine Corps and Army, are not the kinds to go on parade or wear pink nail polish. The anti-gay crowd have this Hollywood stereotype in their heads and the pro-gay crowd are just preaching without care.
Yes I was dead on and this is stereo typing even as you accuse "Hollywood" of stereo typing.
Dead on!? Is your desperation so great tast you would pretend ignorance even after producing my own words? Now, ensure you realize that everybody is reading this before you come back and continue to show your ass.......
Second red bold part: I stated quite clearly on what the hollywood stereotype is and that the anti-gay crowd has this vision in their heads about who enlists in the military.
First blue bolded part: I stated quite clearly what this stereotype is and that the Hollywood gay is not the type that wears a uniform.
See what I did there? I color coded it to make it easier for you. If I could have used crayolas I would have. I defended gays. There are no "just jacks" in the Marine Corps. Flamboyancy doesn't enlist. In your haste to argue, you have fumbled once again over these posts. Always seeking an argument from the Marine aren't you? It's like you have a personal reason from thread to thread to try to prove yourself better than me or something. Let it go and stop inventing arguments.
Ummm Right..... Merely posting a brief comment and a lengthy document in a hopes that others will accept your BS won't work. Now I have to bust you on it. Given my Active status and ability to know exactly where to go to use your own link against you.....
In April 1998, the Department of Defense released a review of the implementation of the “Policy
on Homosexual Conduct.” This review was instituted after complaints were aired that the
increasing rate of discharges was a sign of “witch hunts” or anti-gay harassment. In its review,
DOD concluded that “for the most part, the policy has been properly applied and enforced.” DOD
also stated:
First, we found that the large majority of the discharges for homosexual conduct are based on
the statements of service members who identify themselves as homosexual, as opposed to
cases involving homosexual acts. The services believe that most of these statements—
although not all of them—involve service members who voluntarily elect to disclose their
sexual orientation to their peers, supervisors or commanders. The increase in the number of
discharges for homosexual conduct since 1994 is attributable to this increase in statement
cases.
You see, I know these things because I am the Active Duty. It has been against the UCMJ for anyone other than a commander to investigate homosexuality. The rise in numbers are attributed to gays and non-gays seeking a way out of contract. Gays came out to legally get out. DADT has been a pain in the ass to the military and it was bad for the image of gays. More from your own link...
Critics contend that the activists are trying to have it both ways when “analyzing” data.
....This would be you. But here are the numbers from your own link....
Table 1. Homosexual Conduct Administrative Separation Discharge Statistics
Fiscal Year
Total Number of
Homosexual
Discharges
Percentage of
Total Active Force
1980 1,754 0.086
1981 1,817 0.088
1982 1,998 0.095
1983 1,815 0.085
1984 1,822 0.085
1985 1,660 0.077
1986 1,643 0.076
1987 1,380 0.063
1988 1,101 0.051
1989 996 0.047
1990 941 0.046
1991 949 0.048
1992 730 0.040
1993 682 0.040
1994 617 0.038
1995 757 0.050
1996 858 0.058
1997 997 0.069
1998 1,145 0.081
1999 1,034 0.075
2000 1,212 0.088
2001 1,227 0.089
2002 885 0.063
2003 770 0.054
2004 653 0.046
2005 726 0.052
2006 612 0.044
2007 635 0.046
2008 634 0.045
2009 428 0.030
See how they were lessening, but then when DADT hit the street the numbers climbed? And you can see where they began to decrease after 2001 when "I'm gay" wasn;t good enough to tear up contracts. Are you really going to keep arguing with me? DADT was a way out for even non-gays. Your own link. Thanks for providing it.
Blackdog;1 058776712 said:
Oh, you can always accuse me of stereotyping the National Guard.
The military can adapt just like it has in every other case.
Of course it will. Education and command dilligence will ensure that it is easier. But you have already argued against implimention haven't you? We'll just flip a switch and react.
The problem now days is not as big as this "Alpha Male" crap.
You mite want to post some evidence of that as well.
Evidence of the Marine Corps' alpha male centric attitude? Are you perhaps the only American alive not knowing this? Need evidence that steak is tasty too? Homosexuality just doesn't fit into the definition of the "Alpha Male" that most have. I'm afraid this is more of a common sense thing than it is a web site wisdom thing. Got to log off and enter the world for this one. When people think of gays they think of internal decorating, clothing lines, flambouyancy, etc. All those Hollywood ingredients that make America laugh and laugh from show to show. This would be that stereotype that the anti-gay crowd have in regards to what would enlist inthe military. I have stated that this is not the type that have or would enlist. How much nmore clearer am I supposed to be with you? And keep in mind...everyone's reading this and looking fr what you are arguing about with me.
Blackdog;1 058776712 said:
So yes my opinion and that of other veterans certainly do count.
You mite want to stick to facts and not ASSumptions.
No...it doesnt. I already know from your profile that you are former Regular Army turned Army National Guardsman and this is why you I believe you have such a hard on to invent arguements with a Marine. I ask for no proof of your enlistment. I assumed nothing. You are out. Hold any formations lately? Deal with any uniformed disciplinary problems lately? This future social change within the military is a matter for "us," not you. Your grandstanding opinion has nothing to do with what is ahead for "us."
Blackdog;1 058776712 said:
Your anicdotal evidence counts for nothing. I have posted the actual surveys and they are a better indicator than your "buddies" who beg to differ.
I have given you facts in the face of YOUR anectodal BS. You have already admitted that you guessed (not "proof") and based out some odds in regards to the Active Duty mind set by using civilian polls. You have used a link that merely wound up making a fool of you in regards to DADT. I am Active Duty. I am surrounded by Active Duty. The Commandant of the Marine Corps visits bases in order to gauge what is troubling Marines. He releases "command climates" quarterly to produce the general concerns and his comments. These concerns go from wars to universal health care to gays in the military. The majority are not embracing "gays in the military." He and other top leaders in the military have had audience with the President of the United States because Obama is curious about how this is going to play out. This is why he has stated that he will wait until after the Pentagon study to make a decision. Fortunately, the majority of this report is focusing on how to overcome the forseeable problems and how to impliment the social change amongst the ranks the best.
But let me guess.....you want a link? Foolish.
It is you that have "ASSumed." You "ASSume" that I am anti-gay. You "ASSume" that you know better than the Active Duty who is engaged with taking part in these militrary polls. You "ASSume" to be able to understand the simplest of sentences in regards to what I have stated about Hollywood stereotypes. You "ASSume" to be able to use your former service to dictate the mood of present day military members. And you "ASSume" to be able to produce links that others won't check up on.
Maybe you should just shut up at this point.
Blackdog;1 058776712 said:
Your sophomoric uses of smilies make you look all the more foolish. I will end with... Given how you tripped up all over, NO, I don't believe you have thought about this at all beyond the "gay pride" blanket statements that get nowhere.
Talk about the topic, not about each other
