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Gays in the Military

Should the law be changed so that gays can serve openly in the military.

  • Yes, do it now

    Votes: 65 67.7%

  • Yes, but after the Pentagon completes it study on the issue

    Votes: 9 9.4%

  • No, do not change the law

    Votes: 12 12.5%

  • No, DADT should be repealed and gays not allowed to serve at all

    Votes: 3 3.1%

  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 7 7.3%
  • Total voters
    96
missypea said:
A co-ed shower?
You're comparing a bar of soap to a wheat thin. Those are two entirely different topics.
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No they are not. Are you trying to say that straight people can not control themselves when they are around the opposite sex in the shower or same room? Straight me are sexually attracted to women just as much as gay and bisexual men are sexually attracted to men.
 
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jamesrage said:
No they are not. Are you trying to say that straight people can not control themselves when they are around the opposite sex in the shower or same room?
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Yes, strait people can control themselves in that situation. Are you saying gay people cannot?
 
Goshin said:
If the troops and the Pentagon are okay with it, I have no objections.
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The troops and the Pentagon are not "okay" with it. The Commandant of the Marine Corps just published his quarterly "command climate." Most are very concerned with how this is going to change things, especially in the immediate. However, the military leadership has accepted that this is inevitable. Whether or not to do it is less the issue anymore. The issue is how to do it.
 
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Redress said:
Yes, strait people can control themselves in that situation. Are you saying gay people cannot?
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So you would have no problem with coed showers and rooms in the military?
 
jamesrage said:
So you would have no problem with coed showers and rooms in the military?
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Not really, no. It's still a seperate issue and has nothing to do with the topic however.
 
Redress said:
Not really, no. It's still a seperate issue and has nothing to do with the topic however.
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It is not a seperate issue. Heterosexuals are sexually attracted to the opposite gender, gays are sexually attracted to the same sex. A gay man showering with other men would be no different than me showering with a bunch of women.
 
Redress said:
Since it looks like either this year or early next DADT will almost certainly be repealed, and the latest polling shows over 70 % support for allowing gays to serve openly, it's time to ask the basic question. Do you think the law should be changed so gays can serve openly in the military?
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Oh my GOD no - they might spread their icky filth.
I might catch 'gay' and become it!

LOL - kidding. Of course I support them serving without harassment and so on, so forth.
 
jamesrage said:
No they are not. Are you trying to say that straight people can not control themselves when they are around the opposite sex in the shower or same room? Straight me are sexually attracted to women just as much as gay and bisexual men are sexually attracted to men.
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What I said is that these are two different topics and I see what your doing as a diversion tactic.
Although, I do think co-ed showering would make an interesting thread.
I just don't think it's on topic here.
 
jamesrage said:
It is not a seperate issue. Heterosexuals are sexually attracted to the opposite gender, gays are sexually attracted to the same sex. A gay man showering with other men would be no different than me showering with a bunch of women.
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This is one of the concerns. I don't know why people argue and pretend that it is different. The only way this isn't true is if gays aren't sexual beings. Well, if they are supposed to be like everybody else, then.... they.... are.... like.... everybody.... else.
 
Blackdog said:
There it is. Showering has little to do with anything. As I already said we have been showering with other men since high school. Made no difference gay or not. I guess expecting solders to be more professional than high schoolers is asking to much?

This also had little to do with most of my post.
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It affects the comfort level between soldiers, whether there is a real problem or its all in their head. It also makes people distrustful of one another. If you can't trust someone in combat, you might end up with problems when it comes to a combat mission.

While I agree that gays should be able to serve and not have to hide who they are, I don't think it will work too well in a combat unit. Support units? Sure.

Until society as a whole is more accepting of gays, I don't think we should be forcing this change on the soldiers when they might not be ready for it. It might create more resentment and anger/backlash than if we waited until it was more widely accepted.
 
missypea said:
What I said is that these are two different topics and I see what your doing as a diversion tactic.
Although, I do think co-ed showering would make an interesting thread.
I just don't think it's on topic here.
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They are not two different topics. Nor is its a diversion tactic as you and others falsely claim. How are you going to say its not the same thing when the military has gang latrines,showers and room sharing with low ranking soldiers,marines and sailors?
 
MSgt said:
This is one of the concerns. I don't know why people argue and pretend that it is different. The only way this isn't true is if gays aren't sexual beings. Well, if they are supposed to be like everybody else, then.... they.... are.... like.... everybody.... else.
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It is a different topic. Boys grow up showing with boys and girls grow up showering with girls. Never the twain shall meet. I would have no hesitation in showering with a room full of lesbians. They're all girls, just like me.

Asking a woman to shower with a man is not the same thing.
 
Blackdog said:
As I already said; we have been showering with other men since high school. Made no difference gay or not. I guess expecting solders to be more professional than high schoolers is asking to much?
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As Ive said, openly gay? Knowingly gay? There is difference between reality and what other people perceive.
 
Your Star said:
All I can say is wow, degrading homosexual men to nothing more than "meat gazzers". Really?

Like I've said before, if someone being openly homosexual is a problem to someone in the unit. It is not the homosexuals problem, it is the person who is uncomfortable. They need to get over their irrational homophobia, and be professionals. If they can't get over it, then they are the one causing the problem, and should be discharged.
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If males openly sharing bunks and showers and toilet areas with females is a problem to the female, it is the female's problem. They need to get over their irrational male-o-phobia and be professionals. If they can't get over it, then they are the one causing the problem and should be discharged.
 
Caine said:
It affects the comfort level between soldiers, whether there is a real problem or its all in their head. It also makes people distrustful of one another. If you can't trust someone in combat, you might end up with problems when it comes to a combat mission.

While I agree that gays should be able to serve and not have to hide who they are, I don't think it will work too well in a combat unit. Support units? Sure.

Until society as a whole is more accepting of gays, I don't think we should be forcing this change on the soldiers when they might not be ready for it. It might create more resentment and anger/backlash than if we waited until it was more widely accepted.
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Wouldn't distrust come with having to hide it, and lie about it? I would rather have people be able to be out in the open, than have to hide it, and have rumors about people spreading. The fact is that true acceptance of others, and having shared experience's bring unity. Also, why would someone being gay bring distrust about them? This fallacy that all gay people can't wait to get in the shower with heterosexuals so they can gawk at them is nonsense. Being truthful is the best policy, and allowing gays to openly serve, will not only help our military, but our society as a whole.
 
missypea said:
It is a different topic. Boys grow up showing with boys and girls grow up showering with girls. Never the twain shall meet. I would have no hesitation in showering with a room full of lesbians. They're all girls, just like me.

Asking a woman to shower with a man is not the same thing.
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Why are showers segregated by gender, what is the reason or purpose of this?
 
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MSgt said:
This is one of the concerns. I don't know why people argue and pretend that it is different. The only way this isn't true is if gays aren't sexual beings. Well, if they are supposed to be like everybody else, then.... they.... are.... like.... everybody.... else.
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MSgt and James do have a point. If you are in a communal shower/locker setting with nude individuals of the type you find sexually attractive, then does it matter if it is a gay man among straight men, or a straight man among women? I find it a little dubious to claim that it is "entirely different".

If I were in a communal shower with a bunch of hot chicks... I would NOT rape anybody because I am not that kind of person, but it is possible someone might be "offended" because I'm not 100% sure I could prevent a certain "reflexive" response to being amidst acres of desireable female nudity. :mrgreen:

Where such "intimate" circumstances were necessary in a professional setting, I would attempt to remain "professional" about it of course. I might even be successful.... after all I'm not a young man anymore. But in the military we're talking about mostly 20-somethings and quite a few 18 and 19yo's, for whom self-restraint is more difficult. There's a reason why the military tries to avoid co-ed nudity as much as possible... and it is possible there are reasons why "homo-co-ed" nudity might cause problems as well.

IF there IS some reason why a homo male among straight males in a shower/locker situation really IS totally different from men and woman in the same situation (ie a person among those he finds sexually appealing), then I am all ears to hear it and await suitable enlightenment.

(Hint: sweeping it under the rug by saying "It's totally different! It just is! Everyone knows that!" does not count as an acceptible explanation.) :cool:
 
missypea said:
A co-ed shower?
You're comparing a bar of soap to a wheat thin. Those are two entirely different topics.
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No, actually, the compairson is spot on.
 
Goshin said:
MSgt and James do have a point. If you are in a communal shower/locker setting with nude individuals of the type you find sexually attractive, then does it matter if it is a gay man among straight men, or a straight man among women? I find it a little dubious to claim that it is "entirely different".
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Come on, Goshin. I think you might be thinking over the idea but I don't believe you're sold on it.
How does a woman/woman or man/man showering together in any way equate to a woman and a man showering together?

I really don't want to derail Redress' thread. It's a good one. I'll join you in another thread on this topic if you want to start one.
Whaddya say?

:wink2:
 
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