View Poll Results: Should the law be changed so that gays can serve openly in the military.

Voters
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  • Yes, do it now

    79 36.41%
  • Yes, but after the Pentagon completes it study on the issue

    11 5.07%
  • No, do not change the law

    14 6.45%
  • No, DADT should be repealed and gays not allowed to serve at all

    104 47.93%
  • Other, please explain

    9 4.15%
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Thread: Gays in the Military

  1. #41
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How are my opinions anti-homosexual? With DADT in place all homosexuals can serve and all heteros can feel comfortable and not have their privacy violated.

    Are you anti-privacy then? So if I chose to walk into a female shower, get naked, and bathe with them should they just "get over it"? It's not about soldiers discriminating against homosexuals, it's about having their privacy rights and them not having to feel violated by having a member among them possibly checking them all out in the nude. We can accept others for who they are, but we shouldn't force others into uncomfortable situations or violate their privacy.
    What happens when they get outed then? Will they have to leave the military because some homophobe might feel uncomfortable? This same argument was made about minorities, when they decided to integrate the military, and it was just as bad then as it is now. Someone's insecurities are their problem, not the people they are uncomfortable about.
    Honestly, I really don't see the big deal, I really doubt any LGBT people in the military are going to make a pass at anyone they are bunking or showering with.
    You say we should accept people for who they are but not force people into uncomfortable situations, but if they are uncomfortable with homosexuals being in their unit then they have not truly accepted them, as equals, or human beings. Homosexuals in the military should be treated just like heterosexuals, nothing more, nothing less. It's just that simple, and if anyone is uncomfortable with that, it's their problem, and they do need to get over it.

  2. #42
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And if it made sense logicistically, most folks agreed with it, and there was no harm in it, I see no problem with it either.
    and I see no problem with gays in combat arms units keeping their sexuality discreet.

    I also see no problem with gays in support units being openly gay.
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    As a straight male would you prefer to shower with a homosexual that isn't out or wouldn't you rather know so that you decide based on your own comfort level whether you wanted to disrobe in the shower? Seems to me that what you are really saying is that "ignorance is bliss".
    That is exactly what I am saying.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  4. #44
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    I say let them in. There are plenty of military jobs that don't require two guys sharing a fox hole if that "undermines" the morale. I had a gay suitemate in Lawschool-1Ls were assigned suitemates. He was an older German guy there for an LLm-a colonel in the Luftwaffe as I recall. I respected him, he respected me and the other straight guy. I remember one of our librarians-he wore a USNA ring. I asked him why he was no longer in the navy. He said (he was an expert on Russian military issues and spoke Russian) he was gay so they gave him the boot. Why I asked? He said they thought he could be blackmailed. I asked how an open gay guy could be blackmailed.

    Stupid the guy was top of his class and a genius

    and think of the Psy-Ops value. Muslim extremists hate gays. They are terrified of gays. We could tell jihadists if we catch them they will be interrogated by only gay military inquisitors.



  5. #45
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I say let them in. There are plenty of military jobs that don't require two guys sharing a fox hole if that "undermines" the morale. I had a gay suitemate in Lawschool-1Ls were assigned suitemates. He was an older German guy there for an LLm-a colonel in the Luftwaffe as I recall. I respected him, he respected me and the other straight guy. I remember one of our librarians-he wore a USNA ring. I asked him why he was no longer in the navy. He said (he was an expert on Russian military issues and spoke Russian) he was gay so they gave him the boot. Why I asked? He said they thought he could be blackmailed. I asked how an open gay guy could be blackmailed.

    Stupid the guy was top of his class and a genius

    and think of the Psy-Ops value. Muslim extremists hate gays. They are terrified of gays. We could tell jihadists if we catch them they will be interrogated by only gay military inquisitors.
    At first I was shocked when I saw this, but on thinking about it, it is pretty consistant with how you seem to think.
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So what you are saying is that it is not the penis itself. In that case, where is the problem?
    In your argument with digsbe you were apparently suggesting that there is a difference between hetreosexuals showering with the opposite sex and homosexuals showering with the same sex.
    That argument was of course flawed, since there is no difference between a sexual attraction of a gay man to a penis and a straight male to a vagina, even though the gay man can see his own penis.(As you have pointed out)
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I agree, but in this case there is no way to ensure rights and privacy for all. Call me hypocritical, but I support DADT because I feel it's the best way to allow homosexuals to serve and have heterosexuals be protected and have their privacy rights preserved. It may not be the most ideal solution, but it is the best one. The alternative would mean heterosexuals will be forced to shower and bunk with those who are attracted to their gender, which is comparable to having co-ed bunks and showers.
    1) You are correct. It is hypocritical.
    2) There is a difference between thoughts/feelings and actions. You are operating under the assumption that this is not accurate.


    So back to my example, if I shower with naked women but don't commit any sexual act is it still a problem for them to feel uncomfortable with me being there?
    If there is nothing that states that this is not allowed, yes. Try this. What if she's a lesbian and is NOT uncomfortable? See how you are using very subjective and absolutist conditions and examples?



    You are right in that there is no "right" that others feel uncomfortable. What if peanut butter makes someone uncomfortable? They don't have the right to demand all peanut butter be destroyed.

    However, people have a right to privacy. We have male and female bathrooms for a reason. We have separate showering facilities at gyms for a reason. The only way I could support repealing DADT is if they had a bunk set up where gays will have to stay and heteros can chose to stay there if they have no problem with it. However, this is not always possible and you would still have gays being attracted to other gays living and showering together in the same living space.
    Why do you think there are separate showering and bathroom facilities?
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  8. #48
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    What happens when they get outed then? Will they have to leave the military because some homophobe might feel uncomfortable? This same argument was made about minorities, when they decided to integrate the military, and it was just as bad then as it is now. Someone's insecurities are their problem, not the people they are uncomfortable about.
    Honestly, I really don't see the big deal, I really doubt any LGBT people in the military are going to make a pass at anyone they are bunking or showering with.
    You say we should accept people for who they are but not force people into uncomfortable situations, but if they are uncomfortable with homosexuals being in their unit then they have not truly accepted them, as equals, or human beings. Homosexuals in the military should be treated just like heterosexuals, nothing more, nothing less. It's just that simple, and if anyone is uncomfortable with that, it's their problem, and they do need to get over it.
    Spoken like someone who has never been in the situation where your job is more than just a job. Your unit is your family, your brotherhood. Divisiveness in your unit makes you weak, incapable of completing your mission.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  9. #49
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    In your argument with digsbe you were apparently suggesting that there is a difference between hetreosexuals showering with the opposite sex and homosexuals showering with the same sex.
    That argument was of course flawed, since there is no difference between a sexual attraction of a gay man to a penis and a straight male to a vagina, even though the gay man can see his own penis.(As you have pointed out)
    I pointed out the flaw with hhis argument, since it does not take into account that gay men are not visibly different from strait men, whereas women are visibly different from men. Right now, every day, strait men are showing with gay men and there is no problem. Strait women are showing with gay women. It happens, and in many cases it happens with the strait person knowing it is happening. The only case where it is a problem is when some one acts innapropriately, and there are already regulations in place for those situations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Gays should be allowed to serve openly int he military, but the current bill is full of pork so it should not be supported.

    This should be a clean act for the right reasons, not perverted into a political maneuver for funding pet protects. Don't dishonor gays that way.

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