View Poll Results: Should the law be changed so that gays can serve openly in the military.

Voters
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  • Yes, do it now

    79 36.41%
  • Yes, but after the Pentagon completes it study on the issue

    11 5.07%
  • No, do not change the law

    14 6.45%
  • No, DADT should be repealed and gays not allowed to serve at all

    104 47.93%
  • Other, please explain

    9 4.15%
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Thread: Gays in the Military

  1. #31
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How so? I think sexual orientation shouldn't be something that is asked when someone enlists and isn't a qualifying aspect of being a soldier. However, what I am saying is that sexual orientation becomes an issue when it violates the rights and privacy of the vast majority of other soldiers.
    Rights and privacy are not just for the majority. This further demonstrates the hypocritical aspect of your position.


    There is a greater good. Homosexuals can still serve and no one has to feel sexually violated or have their privacy infringed on.
    One is responsibile for their own feelings. If someone feels violated without this actually happening, it is the responsibility of the person with the feeling... not the other.

    Personally, I would be fine with having soldiers not allowing their wives/husbands to events in order to make thing "fair."
    Good. THAT'S consistency.

    And it doesn't matter if I'm attracted to every female, would it ever be appropriate for me to shower with women, use women's bathrooms, or go to an all female's bunking facility and sleep there among them? I may not be attracted to every woman on earth, but the fact that I am a heterosexual male means that it will always be inappropriate and a violation of the privacy of women for me to live, shower, and bunk with them. It's not just about my sexual preference or whether or not I am attracted to individuals, it's also about the rights and privacy of women who would feel uncomfortable with a hetero man seeing them naked and sleeping in the same room as the, in close proximity.
    One has no "right" to not feel uncomfortable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  2. #32
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    You just said it.... Commander....lol

    Im talking amongst the regular joes.
    Tank commander as in buck Sergent NCO, not officer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    It WILL cause divisiveness amongst some units that regularly have to share facilities.
    Yea, as tankers we never shared facility's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Im not talking on a temporary basis, im talking the infantry guys who live in the ****ty ass barracks where they have shared latrines and showers.
    You mean like most of us in combat arms? Give me a break. Most of the time no one even had any idea. It's not like we sat around trying to figure out who was gay or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I personally witnessed a chubby gay private in Basic Training get his ass beat by other recruits because it was learned that he was talking about the male recruits' penis sizes to the female recruits and some of the female recruits didnt find this amusing.
    If he was straight the same thing would have happened. Not like men brag about their penises, oh wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    The gay was given an article 15 and allowed to continue training. He was booted out in less than a year.
    And I can tell you story's of rape and assault that got people discharged who were straight.

    Your argument is as out dated as my old M60A3.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-28-10 at 07:04 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Heteros feeling violated is their own problem. If no one does anything physical to them, whatever their paranoia is, is for them to deal with.
    Females feeling violated is their own problem. If no one does anything physical to them, whatever their paranoia is, is for them to deal with.

    This is why I shall support fully co-ed showering facilities in the military.

    And hell, if we apply this principle to the military, who says we shouldn't apply it everywhere?

    Think of how much money will be saved if businesses and workplaces dont have to build seperate bathrooms.... gyms dont have to make seperate locker/shower facilities.

    Oh the possibilities.....
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
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  4. #34
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I would assume so to an extent. However, they cansee one any time they want, since they come attached to one.
    And they wouldn't be sexually attracted to it.
    They would however be sexually attracted to a penis that is not theirs, that's a fact.
    Do you really think that gay men are sexually attracted to their own penises?
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  5. #35
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You mean like most of us in combat arms? Give me a break. Most of the time no one even had any idea. It's not like we sat around trying to figure out who was gay or not.
    Wouldnt have to spend time figuring it out, they would be openly gay. It would be BAM IN YO FACE. And everyone would know when Brad came walking in the shower that they were in the presense of a potential cock gazer.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #36
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    People have the right to have facilities where they can bathe and use the bathroom without having others sexually attracted to them.
    1) Show me where this "right" exists.
    2) How are you going to determine if someone, sharing those facilities, is sexually attracted to them? You are making the assumption that ALL homosexuals would be sexually attracted to a heterosexual of the same sex. I'd like to see you prove that.



    Alright, so then I have every right to shower with naked women and if they are uncomfortable with me there then that's their problem.
    You keep talking about rights. I don't see any "rights" in anything you are saying. I see rules and laws. If the rule were changed so that you could shower with women, and they were uncomfortable, then yse, that is their problem. They could choose to shower elsewhere or at another time.

    It's not about homophobia, it's an issue of privacy. If a woman feels violated because a naked man is wither her showering does that mean she has a problem and has an irrational paranoia of men?
    Feeling violated? I think it depends on the situation and context, and on how the man reacts... and the woman for that matter.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #37
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Rights and privacy are not just for the majority. This further demonstrates the hypocritical aspect of your position.
    I agree, but in this case there is no way to ensure rights and privacy for all. Call me hypocritical, but I support DADT because I feel it's the best way to allow homosexuals to serve and have heterosexuals be protected and have their privacy rights preserved. It may not be the most ideal solution, but it is the best one. The alternative would mean heterosexuals will be forced to shower and bunk with those who are attracted to their gender, which is comparable to having co-ed bunks and showers.

    One is responsibile for their own feelings. If someone feels violated without this actually happening, it is the responsibility of the person with the feeling... not the other.
    So back to my example, if I shower with naked women but don't commit any sexual act is it still a problem for them to feel uncomfortable with me being there?

    Good. THAT'S consistency.



    One has no "right" to not feel uncomfortable.[/QUOTE]
    You are right in that there is no "right" that others feel uncomfortable. What if peanut butter makes someone uncomfortable? They don't have the right to demand all peanut butter be destroyed.

    However, people have a right to privacy. We have male and female bathrooms for a reason. We have separate showering facilities at gyms for a reason. The only way I could support repealing DADT is if they had a bunk set up where gays will have to stay and heteros can chose to stay there if they have no problem with it. However, this is not always possible and you would still have gays being attracted to other gays living and showering together in the same living space.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Females feeling violated is their own problem. If no one does anything physical to them, whatever their paranoia is, is for them to deal with.

    This is why I shall support fully co-ed showering facilities in the military.

    And hell, if we apply this principle to the military, who says we shouldn't apply it everywhere?

    Think of how much money will be saved if businesses and workplaces dont have to build seperate bathrooms.... gyms dont have to make seperate locker/shower facilities.

    Oh the possibilities.....
    And if it made sense logicistically, most folks agreed with it, and there was no harm in it, I see no problem with it either.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #39
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    As a straight male would you prefer to shower with a homosexual that isn't out or wouldn't you rather know so that you decide based on your own comfort level whether you wanted to disrobe in the shower? Seems to me that what you are really saying is that "ignorance is bliss".
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  10. #40
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    And they wouldn't be sexually attracted to it.
    They would however be sexually attracted to a penis that is not theirs, that's a fact.
    Do you really think that gay men are sexually attracted to their own penises?
    So what you are saying is that it is not the penis itself. In that case, where is the problem?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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