View Poll Results: Should the law be changed so that gays can serve openly in the military.

Voters
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  • Yes, do it now

    79 36.41%
  • Yes, but after the Pentagon completes it study on the issue

    11 5.07%
  • No, do not change the law

    14 6.45%
  • No, DADT should be repealed and gays not allowed to serve at all

    104 47.93%
  • Other, please explain

    9 4.15%
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Thread: Gays in the Military

  1. #161
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    The whole reason why they are doing an investigation is to see whether or not this will weaken the military, especially recruitment. What is more important, our national security, or allowing a thread-thin minority of the population (who are mostly anti-military anyway) feel warm and fuzzy? The military isn't a social program. We are talking about the defense of our country! And when you are talking about the possibility of discouraging brave young men from serving on a submarine for 6 months sleeping next to a guy who is flirting with him, then the matter is serious. Why not wait to find what the investigation reveals?

    Because they know they won't get the answer they want.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Then your conclusion is flawed. Doing the right thing should always be part of the equation for any decision, including those with the military. We do not intentionally target civilians because it would be wrong. We do not turn a blind eye to our soldiers who commit crimes while on duty(which is thankfully exceedingly rare) because it is wrong. Ethics do play a role in military decisions.
    Redress,

    Asserting that I am wrong adds nothing to the discussion. Let's refrain from such tactics.

    I do believe ethics play a role in military matters and the most important ethic is protecting our country. Anything that undermines or jeopardizes that end is necessarily unethical.

  3. #163
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    We do not allow the military to make those decisions for very good reasons. The military is an instrument of the people, not the other way around. It is not independent.
    The military makes a great many decisions on its own. Politicians and laymen are certainly not in a better position than the military to decide how the military ought to operate. We should only decide when and where they operate.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Redress,

    Asserting that I am wrong adds nothing to the discussion. Let's refrain from such tactics.

    I do believe ethics play a role in military matters and the most important ethic is protecting our country. Anything that undermines or jeopardizes that end is necessarily unethical.
    I explained why you are wrong. Nothing inappropriate about that.

    The vast majority of this thread has been on the topic of whether it would undermine or jeopardize our readiness. I have seen nothing which makes me even the least bit concerned that it will in fact undermine or jeopardize our readiness. All of the data suggests otherwise.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    The military makes a great many decisions on its own. Politicians and laymen are certainly not in a better position than the military to decide how the military ought to operate. We should only decide when and where they operate.
    The military does not make policy decisions, and all the decisions it does make are in response to civilian directives. The decisions the military makes are only how something is accomplished.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    The whole reason why they are doing an investigation is to see whether or not this will weaken the military, especially recruitment. What is more important, our national security, or allowing a thread-thin minority of the population (who are mostly anti-military anyway) feel warm and fuzzy? The military isn't a social program. We are talking about the defense of our country! And when you are talking about the possibility of discouraging brave young men from serving on a submarine for 6 months sleeping next to a guy who is flirting with him, then the matter is serious. Why not wait to find what the investigation reveals?

    Because they know they won't get the answer they want.
    Gays are mostly anti-military? Really? You have some evidence of this, since what one of our gay veterans on this board has told us is that gays strongly want to serve their country.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightarrow View Post
    The whole reason why they are doing an investigation is to see whether or not this will weaken the military, especially recruitment. What is more important, our national security, or allowing a thread-thin minority of the population (who are mostly anti-military anyway) feel warm and fuzzy? The military isn't a social program. We are talking about the defense of our country! And when you are talking about the possibility of discouraging brave young men from serving on a submarine for 6 months sleeping next to a guy who is flirting with him, then the matter is serious. Why not wait to find what the investigation reveals?

    Because they know they won't get the answer they want.
    This is the same exact argument used when they decided to integrate the military. We can't be discourage of providing equality because some people are intolerant.

    And I agree with Redress, lets see your proof that gays are anti-military.
    Last edited by Your Star; 05-29-10 at 12:56 AM.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It's hardly irrelevant if the military study is focusing on such topics. What do you think they are studying, whether or not they can eat the same MREs?
    I think it's typical government red tape bull****. Thats OK though, it's over and it's going to happen. And people who are against it are going to have to suck it up, end of story.
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I explained why you are wrong. Nothing inappropriate about that.
    Your explanation is far from compelling. Anyone can assert that their opponent is wrong, but it adds nothing to the discussion. Let us refrain from it.

    The vast majority of this thread has been on the topic of whether it would undermine or jeopardize our readiness. I have seen nothing which makes me even the least bit concerned that it will in fact undermine or jeopardize our readiness. All of the data suggests otherwise.
    This thread hardly encapsulates the entirety or complexity of this argument. As for my part, I've heard compelling and impassioned arguments from former officers that it could undermine or jeopardize our readiness. I've also heard compelling and impassioned arguments that it won't undermined or jeopardize our readiness. Since I've never served, I'll withhold judgement and defer to the military in matters of which I have no understanding.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    This is the same exact argument used when they decided to integrate the military. We can't be discourage of providing equality because some people are intolerant.
    And now the military takes pride in the fact that it is colorblind, as it should. How the times have changed.

    The same argument was used for women serving on ships, and yet it works as well.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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