View Poll Results: Should the law be changed so that gays can serve openly in the military.

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  • Yes, do it now

    79 36.41%
  • Yes, but after the Pentagon completes it study on the issue

    11 5.07%
  • No, do not change the law

    14 6.45%
  • No, DADT should be repealed and gays not allowed to serve at all

    104 47.93%
  • Other, please explain

    9 4.15%
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Thread: Gays in the Military

  1. #131
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by missypea View Post
    Come on, Goshin. I think you might be thinking over the idea but I don't believe you're sold on it.
    How does a woman/woman or man/man showering together in any way equate to a woman and a man showering together?

    I really don't want to derail Redress' thread. It's a good one. I'll join you in another thread on this topic if you want to start one.
    Whaddya say?

    Oh c'mon. I think you are underthinking this. Shower segregation is based on physical appearance, which was the simple way of seperating sexual prefernece. The military, especially the Marines and Army, is an institution where proximity and personal space is a luxury. Openly serving gays will be the source of a leadership struggle. Showering, living quarters, and such are exactly what the Pentagon is focusing on in this study. It's not a matter of whether to do it. It's a matter of how.

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  2. #132
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post

    Double standard?

    I'm just asking questions...
    It is a double standard.... a double standard of the "politically correct" order.

    Its "politically correct" and liberal and "fair" to support gays in every way shape and fashion and anyone who disagrees is a homophobe who has no reasoning behind their problems.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    At what high schools? The ones in San Fransisco and Massachusetts? No offense but wasn't the last time you were in high school was the 1950s or 1960s? So how would you know what went on in the high schools or high school locker rooms in the last 30 years?
    I graduated in 1980. Please don't ASSume. My daughter also went to high school in the 90's.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    How would a coed shower and coed room sharing be different than heterosexuals and gays showering and sharing rooms together?
    It is irrelevant to this discussion as people have mentioned before.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-28-10 at 09:52 PM.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It is irrelevant to this discussion as people have mentioned before.
    It's hardly irrelevant if the military study is focusing on such topics. What do you think they are studying, whether or not they can eat the same MREs?
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-28-10 at 09:57 PM.

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  5. #135
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    See, this is why I'd rather wait until the Pentagon finishes their studies on the subject. We need to KNOW if this is going to cause readiness problems of some kind before we go messing with the organization that protects the nation.

    If the Joint Chiefs figure they can handle it, and the troops don't have a problem with it, fine. I'm just saying let's be sure we aren't opening a big can of "OH CHIT I didn't know THAT would happen!" before we do this.

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  6. #136
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    See, this is why I'd rather wait until the Pentagon finishes their studies on the subject. We need to KNOW if this is going to cause readiness problems of some kind before we go messing with the organization that protects the nation.

    If the Joint Chiefs figure they can handle it, and the troops don't have a problem with it, fine. I'm just saying let's be sure we aren't opening a big can of "OH CHIT I didn't know THAT would happen!" before we do this.
    In the end, this is going to be a leadership challenge. At the basic level, the leadership will have to deal with the refusal to get along within platoons, squads, and fire teams. All it's going to take is a few accusing one of looking at another in the shower. Or friction between room mates over whatever may arise. And these room mates make up the fire teams.

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  7. #137
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Since it looks like either this year or early next DADT will almost certainly be repealed, and the latest polling shows over 70 % support for allowing gays to serve openly, it's time to ask the basic question. Do you think the law should be changed so gays can serve openly in the military?
    I would like to see a poll with this question asked of the military vets of this forum.

  8. #138
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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Since it looks like either this year or early next DADT will almost certainly be repealed, and the latest polling shows over 70 % support for allowing gays to serve openly, it's time to ask the basic question. Do you think the law should be changed so gays can serve openly in the military?

    Hmmm.

    I'd like to see figures on just how many gays in the military we're talking about....

    ...vs how many military personnel would have a major problem with repealing DADT and might end their career early over it?

    If the former number is 1% and the latter is 30%, there could indeed be a readiness issue.

    First and foremost the military has to be able to fight well; all issues of fairness or equality come FAR behind that question.

    Caveat: I have no idea what those percentages would be... I just think we ought to know before we do anything.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    All I have to say really is that it's an insult that men and women are putting their lives down for their country and in the process they have to live in fear that who they are could be outed and their service could be finished.

    The Pentagon should do whatever it takes to provide these people with dignity of service. The rest of you will just have to deal with it.

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    Re: Gays in the Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hmmm.

    I'd like to see figures on just how many gays in the military we're talking about....

    ...vs how many military personnel would have a major problem with repealing DADT and might end their career early over it?

    If the former number is 1% and the latter is 30%, there could indeed be a readiness issue.

    First and foremost the military has to be able to fight well; all issues of fairness or equality come FAR behind that question.

    Caveat: I have no idea what those percentages would be... I just think we ought to know before we do anything.
    In my experience,... when the basic troops (enlested, lower ranks) did not feel their immediate superiors had their best interest at heart,... they would find other ways to handle 'situations.' I seen more than one guy look for ways to 'get out' or get a change of orders because they feared for themselves if they didn't. One was overly religuious (wouldn't wear shorts or pt gear for religious reasons) One was gay. Several were just lazy and or had bad attitudes.

    The point is,... the Marine corps (I won't speak for other branches) is not the place to air your unique individual qualities (regardless of what they are) if they are going to throw a wrench in the unit's cohesiveness. There is a lot of down time and too many opportunities (guys who are already away from home, in uncomfortable situations (shared showers, etc) to accomodate even the slightest chance that another guy is getting wood checking you out.

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