View Poll Results: Do you agree with the statement in the OP?

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Thread: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

  1. #51
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yay, now you are resorting to talking points. Keep going, this is fun.
    you are playing a rope a dope that is dishonest

    its a common tactic I have seen for years.



  2. #52
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is an opinion

    a society that is full of dependent people who need a nanny state government probably appeals to you

    you also probably don't think AMerica is the greatest nation in the world-again that is an opinion

    but the fact is, more people are dependent on the government now than at any other time in the nation's history.

    and right now a majority of people in the usa are net tax consumers meaning they pay less to the government in federal taxes than what the government spends on them
    Well, if you are resorting to opinions, aka talking points, I will wait until you can present an actual argument and display its validity.

  3. #53
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Well, if you are resorting to opinions, aka talking points, I will wait until you can present an actual argument and display its validity.
    whyt is society better off when more and more people are dependent on the government?



  4. #54
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are playing a rope a dope that is dishonest

    its a common tactic I have seen for years.
    No, I am trying to get you to have an actual debate and not just spout unfounded opinions that you cannot back up.

  5. #55
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    whyt is society better off when more and more people are dependent on the government?
    I never said it was and I do not think it is. Personally, I think society is always better off when as many people are as prosperous as possible.

  6. #56
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    No, I am trying to get you to have an actual debate and not just spout unfounded opinions that you cannot back up.
    you want more welfare socialism I want less

    sounds like a debate to me

    you think rights require others to pay for them I do not

    so how do we prove what we find better?

    I prefer salmon you migh prefer cod



  7. #57
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    No, I am trying to get you to have an actual debate and not just spout unfounded opinions that you cannot back up.
    "unfounded opinions"

    that is really stupid

    an unfounded opinion would be something to the effect that drinking 15 beers a day and doing a pound of reefer a week is a better way to train for making the olympic marathon team than running 100 miles a week

    something that is clearly contrary to known fact

    what have I said that you can factually disprove?

    so has the war on poverty made people more prosperous or more dependent? what is the poverty level now versus 40 years ago

    is government bigger now than it was forty years ago?



  8. #58
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you want more welfare socialism I want less
    I don't really like welfare (as described by Reagan and his welfare queen statement). However, I do think that there is something to be said for things like job training, welfare to work, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    sounds like a debate to me

    you think rights require others to pay for them I do not
    Yes I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so how do we prove what we find better?

    I prefer salmon you migh prefer cod
    We cite things, use logic, and avoid emotional language and talking points. Ultimately though, I don't think either side can prove their beliefs, at least until we have computers powerful enough to simulate whole societies for the purposes of direct experimentation and even than we will probably just argue over which mathematical model is the best.

    Actually, I prefer Tilapia.

  9. #59
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    "unfounded opinions"

    that is really stupid

    an unfounded opinion would be something to the effect that drinking 15 beers a day and doing a pound of reefer a week is a better way to train for making the olympic marathon team than running 100 miles a week

    something that is clearly contrary to known fact

    what have I said that you can factually disprove?

    so has the war on poverty made people more prosperous or more dependent? what is the poverty level now versus 40 years ago

    is government bigger now than it was forty years ago?
    It is unfounded until you can back it up and it is clearly known, than it should be easy to do so. I am at your mercy.



    It appears to be about the same as it was 40 years ago, but surely you are not discounting economic development, gobalism, and the rise of europe and asia during that time.

    Anyway, it looks like I am not going to get anything out of you. Good night.

  10. #60
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't really like welfare (as described by Reagan and his welfare queen statement). However, I do think that there is something to be said for things like job training, welfare to work, etc.



    Yes I do.



    We cite things, use logic, and avoid emotional language and talking points. Ultimately though, I don't think either side can prove their beliefs, at least until we have computers powerful enough to simulate whole societies for the purposes of direct experimentation and even than we will probably just argue over which mathematical model is the best.

    Actually, I prefer Tilapia.
    tilapia's a bit bland for me but I know people who like to bowfish for them



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