View Poll Results: Do you agree with the statement in the OP?

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Thread: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

  1. #11
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    This is the classic debate about rights that often divides thinkers and feelers, liberal welfare socialists and constitutionalists

    A right is a protection. You can do something and not suffer government retribution as a result

    A right is not a just claim on the wealth of others

    a right does not require anyone else to act

    indeed, a right means government agents shall not act

    if a right to own a gun means someone has to provide you a gun that no longer is a right but an entitlement

    thus, you have a right to health care-all that you can afford

    I have no duty to pay for it
    Then voting should not be paid for collectively.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  2. #12
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Then voting should not be paid for collectively.
    that is a stupid analogy.

    people get paid for jury duty too

    in both cases that right is also seen as a duty for the common good



  3. #13
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    This is the classic debate about rights that often divides thinkers and feelers, liberal welfare socialists and constitutionalists.
    Do you think we have a right to govern ourselves?

  4. #14
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is a stupid analogy.

    people get paid for jury duty too

    in both cases that right is also seen as a duty for the common good
    Which is necessary to secure the rights of another person.

  5. #15
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Do you think we have a right to govern ourselves?
    sure but the issue is individual rights

    you have a right to free speech-not a public supplied microphone

    the right to travel but not airline tickets someone else must fund



  6. #16
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Which is necessary to secure the rights of another person.
    evasive

    lets cut the crap and discuss this as the thread creator intended

    many liberals believe people have the right to "affordable housing"

    a well paying job

    free health care

    all of those things require others to act


    they thus are not truly individual rights



  7. #17
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    sure but the issue is individual rights

    you have a right to free speech-not a public supplied microphone

    the right to travel but not airline tickets someone else must fund
    I can agree with you there, but I do believe we should supply a social minimum.

  8. #18
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    This is a very strange question and you really do have to define what you mean by freedom. The question hinges on what "flavor" of freedom we are talking about. For instance, it is reasonable to consider political freedom meaningless without the means to exercise it, and it is not a contradiction to hold this belief and at the same time believe that one can be economically free without the means to participate in economic transactions. Clean up your question and it will probably lead to a better discussion.
    Not so much -- see post #5.

  9. #19
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    evasive
    Nope, it demonstrates that there are cases where even natural rights need overt action from government and the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    lets cut the crap and discuss this as the thread creator intended

    many liberals believe people have the right to "affordable housing"

    a well paying job

    free health care

    all of those things require others to act

    they thus are not truly individual rights
    Personally, I think natural rights are a pretty good concept, but they need to be balanced with practical needs for a functional society.

  10. #20
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    Re: Freedom = Entitlement to means?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I can agree with you there, but I do believe we should supply a social minimum.
    I don't. It only increases dependency and the left has proven it wants to expand the needy so as to get more votes



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