Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 86

Thread: Fascism: Would it work.

  1. #41
    Baby Eating Monster
    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    18,709
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Many would beg to differ.
    Yes. And their policy failures bring about the kind of conditions in which people demand a strong State-- whether it be a Fascist State or some other system.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Not really, they still had unemployment and their economies didn't do very well. At best they were mixed.
    They were much better in the Forties than they were in the Thirties-- as was the United States after FDR's sweeping shifts in US economic policy.

  2. #42
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    What advantages do you see in the corporatist economics of fascism over communism, Korimyr? Having to satisfy the interests of corporate leaders when deciding national economic planning is far less efficient than simply ordering state run factories to produce what you need. It essentially combines the disadvantages of the market and command economy with no useful benefits.

  3. #43
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Yes. And their policy failures bring about the kind of conditions in which people demand a strong State-- whether it be a Fascist State or some other system.
    But as you've said, a state doesn't necessarily need a fascist state in order to be strong. We can have a strong state with democratic processes and do just as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    They were much better in the Forties than they were in the Thirties-- as was the United States after FDR's sweeping shifts in US economic policy.
    That's because the Great Depression was so bad that the government had to increase involvement in the economy in order to get their nation out of it, as opposed to the laissez-faire system that was common before. However, once the nations were out of the Great Depression, the nations could move away from a command economy controlled by a fascist government and towards a regulated economy of a democratic government.

  4. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Didn't work for Mussolini.

    Didn't work for Hitler.

    And no matter how many pretty speeches he makes blaming Bush, it's still not going to work for the Messiah.

  5. #45
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Didn't work for Mussolini.

    Didn't work for Hitler.

    And no matter how many pretty speeches he makes blaming Bush, it's still not going to work for the Messiah.
    Because it didn't work for Bush either.

  6. #46
    Baby Eating Monster
    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    18,709
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    What advantages do you see in the corporatist economics of fascism over communism, Korimyr? Having to satisfy the interests of corporate leaders when deciding national economic planning is far less efficient than simply ordering state run factories to produce what you need.
    Ideally, I would like to abolish currency altogether and replace the market economy with a technocratic system. I see corporatism and increased government involvement in the economy as the only effective midgame strategy for accomplishing this. Communism destroys economies by replacing management with politicians, while Fascism allows corporate leaders to continue doing their jobs as long as they work for the benefit of the State.

    Communism also rejects the concept of the nation and believes that all people are not only created equal, but that all people are essentially the same. The goal of Communism, though no Socialist State has ever achieved it, is the abolition of the State itself and the equality of all people. I consider these goals not only impossible, but actively detrimental to the good of the State and thus the people. Failing to recognize that some people are inherently superior and better suited to leadership than others leads Socialist States to tolerate inferiors in positions of authority and responsibility.

    Despite some cosmetic similarities between my position and Communism, they are at heart opposing ideologies. Communism rejects and is actively opposed to nationalism, religion, authority, and the State. It seeks to tear down traditional institutions in order to promote pure, unadulterated materialism. Fascism, regardless of its economic policies, is first and foremost a spiritual and moral ideology and its goals for the State and for the People are spiritual and moral in nature.

  7. #47
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    A strong state is in the best interests of the people.
    How'd that work for the Russians in the gulag, the Jews at Auschwitz and Treblinka, the Chinese under Mao, and the Cubans on the rafts trying to escape Castro?



    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Italy and Germany came out of there economic crises because of Fascism.
    Germany in particular was in it's sorry economic state because it's government abused it's power and inflated the currency to eliminate internal debt. Aren't strong interfering governments just dandy?

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Alexander Hamilton was the first American fascist.
    Too bad for him. That particular disease doesn't have a cure. However, even Hamilton agreed that limitations on government in Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution were limiting and that the congress could not assume powers not specifically granted, and, oh, by the way, the phrase "general welfare" in Art I, Sect 8 is not a power.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Don't you mean the US had to rebuild europe after he blew the bee jesus out of it with firebombers?
    Everyone had fun blowing up Europe that war.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Economic crises come around because of the inefficiency of Democracy and laisse-faire capitalism.
    MAJOR economic crises come around because of the intrusion of government in the commercial sphere. The US Great Depression, caused by the Fed....The Great Recession, caused by Fannie and Freddie and the CRA.

  8. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Because it didn't work for Bush either.
    No, fascism never works.

    How many pretty speeches did Bush make blaming Bush?

  9. #49
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    05-27-10 @ 03:08 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    84

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Many would beg to differ.
    That's because people buy into naive and idealistic notions of Democracy that are ultimately harmful to the people and the nation in general.

    That's thanks to large government spending and too much government control of the economy
    No, its due to poor allocation of resources due to mob rule. People in a democratic system will always vote for more money, resulting in a high national debt. Fascist regimes have always dealt with national debts well and lived within their means. For the most part anyway.

    As for the government control over the economy. I think that a large part of this was due to the fact that western democracies let the banks run amok.

    Not really, they still had unemployment and their economies didn't do very well. At best they were mixed.
    Everyone at this time period, including Roosevelt and Churchill, recognized that the Italians and Germans had done a tremendous job managing their economies.

    There were many others who went after them. Also, I don't see how brutally crushing the opposition is in the best interests of the people. People did resist Nazi Rule in the 1930s

    Jewish resistance under Nazi rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jewish_resistance_under_Nazi_rule Jewish_resistance_under_Nazi_rule
    Again, this was due to Nazism, not fascism, the two are not interchangeable.

    Federalism is Fascism now? You need to define your terms.
    Federalism had a lot in common with fascism. It advocated a strong centralize government, massive state intervention in the Economy, and a militaristic spirit.

    Outside of Germany and Italy, it was pretty much all Axis done.
    This was because of a war that was started by a mad man, not because of fascism.


    They didn't have enough of an economic base to take on the Allies
    That just shows that Germany hadn't been fascist long enough, and the allies implemented Fascistic economic reforms as well, by the way.

    No, the crisis came about because of the humiliation and despair over leaders after WWI. About 1,000,000 people in Italy died, 2,500,000 in Germany. People were furious with their leaders and economic woes that had little to do with capitalism angered the people
    No, it was the Weimer Republic which was racking up an unsustainable economic debt that sent the nation into hyperinflation. It was the Fascists who cleaned up the mess.

    That's like saying that it was only after I drank tea in the last 5 years, I got cancer, so I should blame the tea for that cancer
    Just about every Democratic nation in history has failed because the people are too ignorant to spend the Nation's money for the greater good.

    Yes, but it wasn't sustained.
    Only because of the war.

    I said there were attempts at overthrow, which shows that fascism isn't always well-received within the state it takes part in. And should the assassination attempts by Hitler's own officers succeeded, we would have had at least one.
    Yeah, that was Hitler, but a large part of that was because of the fact Hitler was a mad man, not because he was a fascist.

    Yes it is. When the people have no say in the politics of the government that rules them, they have an inherent tyrannical government.
    Then I guess 95% of the Governments in history were Tyrannical. Also, I could name you plenty of democracies where the people did have a say in the Government that were Tyrannical.

    However, he did not believe in a tyrannical, dictatorial government to rule the people.
    Is that why he called in the army to put down the whisky revolt?

    No, Alexander Hamilton was a federalist who believed in a strong centralized government.
    Again, the two are very similar, and I would also like to point out that many fascist governments did not have dictators, e.g. Japan.
    Last edited by John2.0; 05-25-10 at 09:52 PM.

  10. #50
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    No, fascism never works.

    How many pretty speeches did Bush make blaming Bush?
    None, but he sure did implement plenty of policies similar to Obama's.

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •