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Thread: Fascism: Would it work.

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    ''If you look at Germany under Hitler for example, you'll see that for the most part it did very well economically, the only bad part was the wars.''

    This is a misguided opinion. Nazi Germanys economy was essentially built on creating a war machine.



    ''Any governmental system can work, given perfect conditions. But only a few can work well without those perfect conditions. Fascism, along with Communism, works only in perfect worlds, but people aren't perfect. ''

    Yes, this is what I think too.



    ''Marxism preaches the eventual withering away of the state and the development of a classless society. ''

    Marxism is a stepping stone only, and should not be considered to be more than that.



    Fascism leaders are on the wrong site of history. They need so much millitary to keep order, only the sleeziest foreign organisations want to touch them with a bargepole, and they are being sancioned more and more, by economies they rely on. They will essentially impode on themselves.



    ''Every Fascist regime has its own specific "enemy"''

    Yeah, it is called scapgoating. It unites people against the common enemy, taking the attention away from what the regime are doing, to the country.



    ''Many fascist states did the have the support of the majority of the population. ''

    They appeared to, which is not the same as actually supporting.



    ''It is also of note that fascism came to the fore as a major political philosophy during a global crisis of the Great Depression. On the other hand, fascist states do not come about during times of peace and prosperity. ''

    I always find it shocking to see an increase of support for the far right, here in Germany, whenever the economy dips even slightly. The increase isnt significant enough to get them elected, but it is enough to shock me into wondering how many here have no sustaining morals.

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    It depends.

    I suppose it is possible for it to work.

    But any application of it would most likely have to be far different from past examples for me to support it.

    That said, I don't really know much about fascism as an idea.

    Nor do I know much about any fascistic states except Nazi Germany, and there not that much either.

    So I could be incorrect.
    Spain, Portugal, Greece, Brazil, Argentina, and Chile had fascistic governments post WW2
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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    I am surprised that somebody would actully ask such a question. Tyranny is universally abhorred, and thus Fascism never did and never would work.
    Fascism does not neccesarily have to be Tyrannical.

    If this is the case, then you surely can name a few good apples for us to consider.
    Potugese Fascism, Austrian Fascism(pre nazi), Greek Fascism, Spanish Fascism (granted, it was partially tyrannical, but it was a better alternative than communism), Polish Fascism (yes, poland was partially fascist before it was conquered) and, dare I say it, AMERICAN FASCISM.

    Is there any example of a fascist nation, that is not or has not been corrupt. Their leaders empty 'their' countries resources like locusts, so the economy fails eventually. Also, there is generally suppressed unrest amongst the citizens who are deprived of their basic needs and rights. This usually periodically errupts in violence, which is then suppressed by killings and torture.
    False, in fact Germany and Italy did very well under fascism. Also, many elements of the new deal were modeled after fascist Italy.

    If you banish people, you give them the opportunity to group together to make their own state that would then compete with the fascist state for resources. If you use capital punishment, it is still not a deterrent, and thus the drawback of Legalism is still applied to fascist states.
    No fascist state was ever overthrown from within.

    But it does not maintain the support of the majority of the population. And can you really say that after it is implemented, such a fascist state is justified if it banishes or kills anyone who disagrees or is opposed to the government?
    Franco in Spain and Salazar in Portugal both ended there reign with the majority support of the population.

    It is also of note that fascism came to the fore as a major political philosophy during a global crisis of the Great Depression. On the other hand, fascist states do not come about during times of peace and prosperity.
    Fascism rises in times of crisis because people realize that it is the most effective means of dealing with them.

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Chile under Pinochet wasn't fascist, as the economic sector was largely free from government interference. Fascist states like Italy had the government controlling prices, wages, and industrial policy. It has much more in common with Soviet Communism than Pinochet
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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Chile under Pinochet wasn't fascist, as the economic sector was largely free from government interference. Fascist states like Italy had the government controlling prices, wages, and industrial policy. It has much more in common with Soviet Communism than Pinochet
    Yes, and I believe that Pinochet's economic system was based on the Chicago school of economics supported by libertarians like Milton Freidman.

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    ''Fascism does not neccesarily have to be Tyrannical.''

    But, it always is anyway.



    ''AMERICAN FASCISM.''

    Dont be stupid. Are you by any chance a fan of 'Liberal Fascism, by Goldstein''? What a heap of scrambled concepts that is.



    ''False, in fact Germany and Italy did very well under fascism.''

    Don't be stupid! The US practically had to economically rebuild the entire of Europe after defeating fascism.



    ''No fascist state was ever overthrown from within.''

    And? They were overthrown by a number of factors, including failure within.



    ''Fascism rises in times of crisis because people realize that it is the most effective means of dealing with them. ''

    As somebody pointed out before, economic problems cause unrest. It has happened more than once in history that citizens choose a fasicist leader, because of fear of uncertainty. Fascism still did not work, in any country.

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Fascism does not neccesarily have to be Tyrannical.
    Fascism, by it's very definition, in which the people support the state over their own interests, is tyrannical.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Potugese Fascism, Austrian Fascism(pre nazi), Greek Fascism, Spanish Fascism (granted, it was partially tyrannical, but it was a better alternative than communism), Polish Fascism (yes, poland was partially fascist before it was conquered) and, dare I say it, AMERICAN FASCISM.
    And how many of those states are still fascist?

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    False, in fact Germany and Italy did very well under fascism. Also, many elements of the new deal were modeled after fascist Italy.
    Well, they couldn't have done much worse during the Great Depression.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    No fascist state was ever overthrown from within.
    Hitler was nearly assassinated multiple times during the Nazi regime, so it's not like those within the state didn't try.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Fascism rises in times of crisis because people realize that it is the most effective means of dealing with them.
    Until the crisis is over, when they realize that fascism causes more harm than good.

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Fascism, by it's very definition, in which the people support the state over their own interests, is tyrannical.
    A strong state is in the best interests of the people.

    And how many of those states are still fascist?
    And how many of those states since they became democracies are on the brink of economic collapse.

    Well, they couldn't have done much worse during the Great Depression.
    Italy and Germany came out of there economic crises because of Fascism.

    Hitler was nearly assassinated multiple times during the Nazi regime, so it's not like those within the state didn't try.
    Hitler was nearly assassinated three times because he declared war on half the world.

    Until the crisis is over, when they realize that fascism causes more harm than good.
    False. Prove that any fascist state was ever overthrown from the inside.

    But, it always is anyway.
    No it is not.

    Dont be stupid. Are you by any chance a fan of 'Liberal Fascism, by Goldstein''? What a heap of scrambled concepts that is.
    Alexander Hamilton was the first American fascist.

    Don't be stupid! The US practically had to economically rebuild the entire of Europe after defeating fascism.
    Don't you mean the US had to rebuild europe after he blew the bee jesus out of it with firebombers?

    And? They were overthrown by a number of factors, including failure within.
    Such as.

    As somebody pointed out before, economic problems cause unrest. It has happened more than once in history that citizens choose a fasicist leader, because of fear of uncertainty. Fascism still did not work, in any country.
    Economic crises come around because of the inefficiency of Democracy and laisse-faire capitalism.

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    A strong state is in the best interests of the people.
    Not when the state acts against the interests of the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    And how many of those states since they became democracies are on the brink of economic collapse.
    That's like saying that it was only after I drank tea in the last 5 years, I got cancer, so I should blame the tea for that cancer

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Italy and Germany came out of there economic crises because of Fascism.
    Yes, but it wasn't sustained.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Hitler was nearly assassinated three times because he declared war on half the world.
    And how many of those times were by his own officers?

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    False. Prove that any fascist state was ever overthrown from the inside.
    I said there were attempts at overthrow, which shows that fascism isn't always well-received within the state it takes part in. And should the assassination attempts by Hitler's own officers succeeded, we would have had at least one.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    No it is not.
    Yes it is. When the people have no say in the politics of the government that rules them, they have an inherent tyrannical government.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Alexander Hamilton was the first American fascist.
    No, Alexander Hamilton was a federalist who believed in a strong centralized government. However, he did not believe in a tyrannical, dictatorial government to rule the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Don't you mean the US had to rebuild europe after he blew the bee jesus out of it with firebombers?
    Yes, because the fascist governments could not properly wage war, which shows another flaw in it's system.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Economic crises come around because of the inefficiency of Democracy and laisse-faire capitalism.
    So I suppose things like weather affecting crops which affects the agricultural industry which affects the economy has absolutely nothing to do with economic crisis then?

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    Re: Fascism: Would it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    A strong state is in the best interests of the people.
    Many would beg to differ.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    And how many of those states since they became democracies are on the brink of economic collapse.
    That's thanks to large government spending and too much government control of the economy

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Italy and Germany came out of there economic crises because of Fascism.
    Not really, they still had unemployment and their economies didn't do very well. At best they were mixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Hitler was nearly assassinated three times because he declared war on half the world.


    False. Prove that any fascist state was ever overthrown from the inside.
    There were many others who went after them. Also, I don't see how brutally crushing the opposition is in the best interests of the people. People did resist Nazi Rule in the 1930s

    Jewish resistance under Nazi rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Alexander Hamilton was the first American fascist.
    Federalism is Fascism now? You need to define your terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Don't you mean the US had to rebuild europe after he blew the bee jesus out of it with firebombers?
    Outside of Germany and Italy, it was pretty much all Axis done.

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Such as.
    They didn't have enough of an economic base to take on the Allies

    Quote Originally Posted by John2.0 View Post
    Economic crises come around because of the inefficiency of Democracy and laisse-faire capitalism.
    No, the crisis came about because of the humiliation and despair over leaders after WWI. About 1,000,000 people in Italy died, 2,500,000 in Germany. People were furious with their leaders and economic woes that had little to do with capitalism angered the people
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