View Poll Results: Do You Believe Our Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

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Thread: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

  1. #81
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    All of the Founding Fathers believed in state sovereignty as opposed to individual sovereignty they were no more Libertarians than any other statists.
    According to whom??? That is hogwash, they also believed in individual liberty and representation. The Constitution pretty much bears this out.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-24-10 at 03:31 PM.
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    How can a party be for individual sovereignty and the non-aggression principle and yet not be anarchist? The Libertarian party is an anarchist and a minarchist party, those are the two sides of the spectrum within the Libertarian party.



    It is not.



    Have you been to lp.org?



    3.6 Representative Government

    We support electoral systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives.
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 05-24-10 at 03:31 PM.
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  3. #83
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    When you have to make up your own definitions in order to make your point, your point is necessarily unsound.
    Make up my own definitions? WTF are you talking about? The Libertarians view range the gauntlet of anarchist to minarchist. Minarchy is as far as the Libertarian party goes in accepting the legitimacy of the state.

    Furthermore; the Libertarian platform enshrines right in the very first sentence the sovereignty of the individual and thus is necessarily opposed to statism of any kind.

  4. #84
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    It is not.



    Have you been to lp.org?



    3.6 Representative Government

    We support electoral systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Make up my own definitions? WTF are you talking about? The Libertarians view range the gauntlet of anarchist to minarchist. Minarchy is as far as the Libertarian party goes in accepting the legitimacy of the state.

    Furthermore; the Libertarian platform enshrines right in the very first sentence the sovereignty of the individual and thus is necessarily opposed to statism of any kind.
    and this is why people think the LP doesn't stand for anything in particular, no-one can make up their minds about what they want from it.
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  5. #85
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Spud, I got mine from the LP website. AF got his from ?????
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  6. #86
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    It is not.
    As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

    Platform | Libertarian Party


    The sovereignty of the individual and statism are two mutually exclusive concepts.

    Have you been to lp.org?



    3.6 Representative Government

    We support electoral systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state and local levels. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be allowed to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws which restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all legitimate alternatives.
    Yes the Libertarian party supports elections, and election reform as a means to bring about a Libertarian society, that does not mean that they support statism. Elections are the means by which to bring about the end of individual sovereignty.

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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    According to whom??? That is hogwash, they also believed in individual liberty and representation. The Constitution pretty much bears this out.
    I said individual sovereignty. The right of the Federal Government to levy taxes, regulate commerce, conscript armies etc are violations of the right of self ownership and the non-aggression principle.

    The Founding Fathers were not Libertarians they were Federalists.

  8. #88
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Spud, I got mine from the LP website. AF got his from ?????
    but the discord within the definitions, whether correct or not, doesn't lend much confidence of the platform to the casual observer.
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  9. #89
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Make up my own definitions? WTF are you talking about?
    The terms you use to describe the platform of the LP are not those that the LP uses to describe itself.

  10. #90
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    So slave ownership was a natural right removed from the government. Are you sure there wasn't some form of license for slave ownership that had some sort of state involvement, possibly for every owner or every slave? I doubt they'd let people have slaves untaxed and running about all willy nilly.

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