View Poll Results: Do You Believe Our Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

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Thread: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

  1. #71
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is false.
    Wanting a minimum of government does not equate to the total opposition of the existence of government.
    A social contract is antithetical to the non-aggression principle and the right of self ownership so we are necessarily opposed to the state, period.

  2. #72
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Ya statist libertarians who set up a timocratic system of governance that allowed slavery.
    In all fairness the institution of slavery already existed and was accepted in most of the world at the time.

    Judging people of a different time and mind set as compared to ours is nothing but mental masturbation, as it does not apply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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  3. #73
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Um Libertarians are opposed to the state, period, we support the sovereignty of the individual. A collective tyranny at the state or local level is a tyranny just like that of the federal level only on a smaller scale.



    We are?



    I thought we were for individual liberty and limited government. You want the anarchists. There two doors down.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #74
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    In all fairness the institution of slavery already existed and was accepted in most of the world at the time.

    Judging people of a different time and mind set as compared to ours is nothing but mental masturbation, as it does not apply.
    The right of self ownership IE individual sovereignty is the central tenet of the Libertarian party and thus anyone who owned a slave or supported slavery could not possibly be a libertarian. The two concepts are mutually exclusive.

  5. #75
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    A social contract is antithetical to the non-aggression principle and the right of self ownership...
    Not necessarily so, and even if so, this isn't the Libertarian position.

    so we are necessarily opposed to the state, period.
    If so, then "we" are anarchists, not libertarians.

  6. #76
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    A social contract is antithetical to the non-aggression principle and the right of self ownership so we are necessarily opposed to the state, period.
    Being that as it is, slaves were not considered people in the truest sense at the time by a large majority. They had no rights per say.

    Of course most of the founding fathers were not slave holders, but in the interest of the union of states, it had to be accepted or this nation could not have been born at all. They needed the heavy slave states to support the war against England.

    As I mentioned comparing life, thoughts etc of those 200+ years ago to our sensibility's today just does not work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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  7. #77
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The right of self ownership IE individual sovereignty is the central tenet of the Libertarian party and thus anyone who owned a slave or supported slavery could not possibly be a libertarian.
    The founders were not subscribing to our definition of what is or is not a libertarian. In fact I agree they were not.

    The problem is they were closer to libertarianism than anything else we have today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The two concepts are mutually exclusive.
    Again slaves were property and not considered citizens or even human by many. The view of slavery then was accepted and part of everyday society before this country was even born.

    Your argument really does not apply. Don't get me wrong I agree, but it still just does not apply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #78
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    We are?



    I thought we were for individual liberty and limited government. You want the anarchists. There two doors down.
    How can a party be for individual sovereignty and the non-aggression principle and yet not be anarchist? The Libertarian party is an anarchist and a minarchist party, those are the two sides of the spectrum within the Libertarian party.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 05-24-10 at 03:22 PM.

  9. #79
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The Libertarian party is an anarchist and a minarchist party.
    When you have to make up your own definitions in order to make your point, your point is necessarily unsound.

  10. #80
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The founders were not subscribing to our definition of what is or is not a libertarian. In fact I agree they were not.

    The problem is they were closer to libertarianism than anything else we have today.

    Again slaves were property and not considered citizens or even human by many. The view of slavery then was accepted and part of everyday society before this country was even born.

    Your argument really does not apply. Don't get me wrong I agree, but it still just does not apply.

    All of the Founding Fathers believed in state sovereignty as opposed to individual sovereignty they were no more Libertarians than any other statists.

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