View Poll Results: Do You Believe Our Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

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    21 42.00%
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    20 40.00%
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Thread: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

  1. #21
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    But it points a major flaw in states' rights. States' rights advocates say that their philosophy protects against oppression from the national government. However, the national government can protect from oppression by state governments.

    Personally, I prefer for the national government and the state governments to compete with each other for the popularity of their voters.
    that competition took a serious blow with the idiotic 17th Amendment



  2. #22
    Sage
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    But it points a major flaw in states' rights. States' rights advocates say that their philosophy protects against oppression from the national government. However, the national government can protect from oppression by state governments.

    Personally, I prefer for the national government and the state governments to compete with each other for the popularity of their voters.
    National governments have done the exact same thing though.

    I could bring up the Nazi's and Stalinist Soviets every time someone wants to use centralized governance as a platform.

    It doesn't add to the debate, unless you approach it like how you did.
    Instead of, how others use hyperbole to insult another persons philosophy.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #23
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess Hatuey supports the suspension of Habeas Corpus then or the collectivization of the Soviet Farms.

    we all can play that game. States rights were an inherent assumption of the founders. Its called the tenth amendment
    He just likes to try to give libertarians a bloody nose.
    It's annoying but that's about it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #24
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    He just likes to try to give libertarians a bloody nose.
    It's annoying but that's about it.
    freedom scares the crap out of alot of sheeple



  5. #25
    Sage
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    National governments have done the exact same thing though.

    I could bring up the Nazi's and Stalinist Soviets every time someone wants to use centralized governance as a platform.

    It doesn't add to the debate, unless you approach it like how you did.
    Instead of, how others use hyperbole to insult another persons philosophy.
    Hyperbole comes from both sides, though. And I could point out that the reason why we have a more powerful centralized government is because the weak centralized government we had during the Articles of Confederation was a failure. That's why we ratified the Constitution to form a more powerful centralized government, specifically with more powers to tax.

  6. #26
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Hyperbole comes from both sides, though. And I could point out that the reason why we have a more powerful centralized government is because the weak centralized government we had during the Articles of Confederation was a failure. That's why we ratified the Constitution to form a more powerful centralized government, specifically with more powers to tax.
    The progressive income tax gave congress powers that the founders never contemplated. The 16 and 17th amendments destroyed the balance and the country is going downhill because of that



  7. #27
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The progressive income tax gave congress powers that the founders never contemplated. The 16 and 17th amendments destroyed the balance and the country is going downhill because of that
    See what I mean?

  8. #28
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    See what I mean?
    hardly hyperbole

    playing off net tax consumers against net tax payers is a power that gives congress far far more control then every imagined. before there was an income tax the parties had to run on real differences rather than one saying we will take more from you to help our voters vs the other party saying we won't loot you as much as long as you vote for us

    do you understand that the 17th amendment changed the senate from being advocates for their states to pandering to the voters of that state.



  9. #29
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    hardly hyperbole

    playing off net tax consumers against net tax payers is a power that gives congress far far more control then every imagined. before there was an income tax the parties had to run on real differences rather than one saying we will take more from you to help our voters vs the other party saying we won't loot you as much as long as you vote for us

    do you understand that the 17th amendment changed the senate from being advocates for their states to pandering to the voters of that state.
    Yes I do. And I have no problem with that. And there's already a thread devoted to that, and I have provided the link for it below. So instead of hijacking this thread, I ask you to post about it there than here.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...amendment.html

  10. #30
    Sage
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Sally Hemmings might disagree.
    Um... why? Slave owners can't be libertarians?

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