View Poll Results: Do You Believe Our Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

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  • Yes

    21 42.00%
  • No

    20 40.00%
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    9 18.00%
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Thread: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

  1. #101
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Exactly. It's one of the most annoying misconceptions as well, and pretty much illustrates that some people have no clue as to what they're talking about when they address libertarianism on the whole. Libertarianism is not anarchism, they are two very different things.
    Then please do explain to me how you can have individual sovereignty AND a statist society. The two are antithetical concepts.

  2. #102
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Again only to you.
    No, it is according to anyone who understands the concept of individual sovereignty which is another term for the right of self ownership; levying taxes, conscripting armies, and regulating commerce are all violations of the right of self ownership, because they are not voluntary actions, rather the state uses its monopoly on the use of force to compel the individual against their will.

    They were AGAIN closer to libertarians than anything else we have today even if they weren't.
    How were they closer to Libertarians than they were to Republicans or Democrats?

  3. #103
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Individual sovereignty is the central plank of the libertarian platform, it is the first line IN the platform, and the sovereignty of the individual is antithetical to a statist society.
    And yet, the specifics of platform describe the proper role of government, necessitating that the LP recognizes the validity of the state.
    As such, your argument that the LP is anarchist fails.

  4. #104
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    ... States rights is something both the Founding slave owners and Libertarians all seem to be fond of.
    Slavery, something those on the Left and the Democrat Party have a long long history of promoting, protecting, and perpetuating, to this very day.

  5. #105
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    How were they closer to Libertarians than they were to Republicans or Democrats?
    Their creation of a Constitution creating a government of limited defined powers, a thing that had never existed before and no longer exists today, thanks to the Republocrats and Demicans.

  6. #106
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Again only to you.
    No, it is according to anyone who understands the concept of individual sovereignty which is another term for the right of self ownership; levying taxes, conscripting armies, and regulating commerce are all violations of the right of self ownership, because they are not voluntary actions, rather the state uses its monopoly on the use of force to compel the individual against their will.

    They were AGAIN closer to libertarians than anything else we have today even if they weren't.
    How were they closer to Libertarians than they were to Republicans or Democrats?

  7. #107
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Their creation of a Constitution creating a government of limited defined powers, a thing that had never existed before and no longer exists today, thanks to the Republocrats and Demicans.
    So in other words they created a social contract which created a state monopoly enshrined with the sole and exclusive right of the use of force. This is antithetical to individual sovereignty.

  8. #108
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Individual sovereignty is the central plank of the libertarian platform, it is the first line IN the platform, and the sovereignty of the individual is antithetical to a statist society.
    Hello?

    Individual sovereignity stops right at the same point anyone else's right to flail their arms stops...at the edge of personal space inside which a person has a reasonable expectation that he's going to be hit.

    Welcome to the real world, where the pipe dreams of liberalism, socialism, marxism, and anarchy don't work, ever.

    A sovereign individual is free to make decisions regarding his personal choices.

    He is not free of the consequences of those choices.

    If he chooses to spend his entire paycheck at the tavern, there's no reason anyone else should be obligated to feed him, or his family.

    If he chooses to kill the bartender, he gets to pay the price, in jail and maybe at the end of a rope.

    Because he doesn't have the individual sovereign right to invade the sovereignity of others. It's the sphere of government to punish those who do so invade.

  9. #109
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    So in other words they created a social contract which created a state monopoly enshrined with the sole and exclusive right of the use of force. This is antithetical to individual sovereignty.
    No, it's not.

    Read the Oresteia, it explains the issues you're confused on.

    Stop reading Marx and Obama.

  10. #110
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    Re: The Founding Fathers Were Libertarians

    Also, one should note that the power to tax, under the Constitution written by the Founders, was limited to tariffs on imports. Individuals were not taxed.

    It took a Constitutional Amendment foisted on the public by the lying Progressives to impose the anti-freedom income tax on all of us.

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