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Thread: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

  1. #61
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    ''Basically, I disagree with the whole thing. Not with the "rights" listed although some of them I do disagree with, but with the tone they are listed in. ''

    Maybe if you lived in a country where your own human rights were being abused on a regular basis, you would not place such importance on things like the tone the rights you should have are being declared in.
    And you think this UN pile of hot air is going to do anything at all to do this or make it happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    I cant imagine those who are hanging from the ceiling and having their genitals elecocuted in a prison in Iran being concerned about the tone of the doccument. Nor is the women who is being brutally raped and mutilated in DRC. Or what about the mother who has no food to put in her childrens mouths in Zimbawe. Or those who are being worked to death(literally) in Burma because if they refuse their wife and daughters will be raped by those who are supposed to be protecting society. Their only hope is that there are millions of people out there patiently negotiating with the disgusting governments of the world to start applying the code of human right to their citizens lives.
    Mel, the reality of the situation is a bitch. The fact is the country's that are doing such things are not going to change because of embargo or political threat. We have seen this so many times before you figure people would learn. They don't learn and make the same mistakes over and over again.

    After awhile someone with vision my come along and have the clout or balls to do something about it. That something is not talk or make threats. The only thing that these despots understand is violence, but we are so weak in the stomach about war now days, no one will do it.

    When brave men sit by and are willing to sit on their asses and do nothing about the evil they see happening, it will continue. No amount of talking or embargo will change this.

    Reality is a bitch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #62
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    Their only hope is that there are millions of people out there patiently negotiating with the disgusting governments of the world to start applying the code of human right to their citizens lives.
    Their only hope is that those governments are overthrown-- whether they do it themselves in revolution or are conquered by more enlightened regimes. If their only hope was relying on the United Nations and it's half-hearted and ineffective resolutions, they would be better off committing suicide.

  3. #63
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Mell View Post
    Maybe if you lived in a country where your own human rights were being abused on a regular basis, you would not place such importance on things like the tone the rights you should have are being declared in.

    I cant imagine those who are hanging from the ceiling and having their genitals elecocuted in a prison in Iran being concerned about the tone of the doccument. Nor is the women who is being brutally raped and mutilated in DRC. Or what about the mother who has no food to put in her childrens mouths in Zimbawe. Or those who are being worked to death(literally) in Burma because if they refuse their wife and daughters will be raped by those who are supposed to be protecting society. Their only hope is that there are millions of people out there patiently negotiating with the disgusting governments of the world to start applying the code of human right to their citizens lives.
    Your examples have no bearing on my point.

    This is supposedly a "Universal Declaration of Human Rights".

    As such, for me to agree to it, it must fit my definition of what they should be very closely.

    The message I receive from reading that document is not one that I want defining human rights in UN negotiations, or any other.

    In short, that definition of “universal human rights” is not one that I agree with.

    So, I disagree.

    And, like I said previously, to add all the stuff in the later articles when even the first few articles are not recognized in some areas, seems absurd to me.

    In some areas, not even the primary rights of “life, liberty, and (insert something you agree with here) are available.

    Focus on those first, for ****s sake.
    Education.

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  4. #64
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    A good point. We would end up having to put a foot in their terroist asses.
    Because, you know, might always makes right?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because, you know, might always makes right?
    No not really. In some cases though, it is necessary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #66
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because, you know, might always makes right?
    Yes, it does, because the winners write the history books. Conquered peoples are forced to adopt the moral attitudes of their conquerors in order to survive, and thus are the victorious retroactively justified.

  7. #67
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Yes, it does, because the winners write the history books. Conquered peoples are forced to adopt the moral attitudes of their conquerors in order to survive, and thus are the victorious retroactively justified.
    I don't agree with it on moral grounds, but damn that sounds good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I don't agree with it on moral grounds, but damn that sounds good.
    No, but you agree with yourself on moral grounds. That's all the justification needed to conquer those who oppose your moral beliefs and force them into compliance with them. The only thing that matters is that you win. Continuing to uphold your stated moral values in the process is a nice bonus, but I think history has shown us time and time again that it's not necessary.

  9. #69
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yea what it basically says is that "you're free, as long as it conforms to our definition of free."
    How would you be free without conforming to a definition of freedom?

    This definition of freedom is one that resonates with a huge amount of the people of the world. They ,now that state oppression is not the only threat to their freedom, economic suppression through poverty is also a very real thing in their lives.

    The libertarian definition of freedom, which you think should be rammed down the throat of everyone, is nothing but the freedom to exploit and the freedom to starve. I think most people would like to do without those "freedoms".

    I can't believe you lumped libertarianism with fascism and state communism.
    I did. They are all totalitarian ideologies that leads to suffering and injustice. Thus human rights exists to protect us from them.
    The poor complain; they always do
    But thatís just idle chatter
    Our system brings reward to all
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    Re: Universal Declaration of Human Rights

    ''And you think this UN pile of hot air is going to do anything at all to do this or make it happen?''



    It is already happening, in many countries. Most western countries uphold most of the human rights standards most of the time.



    But, I dont understand why your are laughing. What kind of person laughs at human rights issues. There really is something sick about that attitude.



    ''We have seen this so many times before you figure people would learn.''

    Compare human rights standards in the European Union of today, with the standards that were in this area 200 years ago. Surely, you can see that people have learned.



    ''When brave men sit by and are willing to sit on their asses and do nothing about the evil they see happening, it will continue.''

    They are. What do you think the UN, NGOs, lawyers without fontiers... are doing with their time.



    The only people who can in some way reasonably argue against human rights standards, are the ones who are in some way benefiting from the lack of human rights standards in certain coutries. ie. Human rights are at odds with their personal and/or financial interests. Oil industries, gems traders, weapons manufacturers... Dirty dealers!

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