View Poll Results: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

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  • Incorrect understanding of the law and its consequences.

    27 47.37%
  • Intentional effort to mislead, with a goal of increasing opposition.

    24 42.11%
  • Correct understanding of the law and its consequences.

    11 19.30%
  • Sincere disagreement with both the law and its consequences.

    25 43.86%
  • Other (Please explain).

    7 12.28%
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Thread: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

  1. #71
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    What about when Spanish people are stacked on top of each other in the back of a pick-up truck?
    The effective way to go would be to find out WHY they are stacked on top of each other in the back of a pickup-truck. And work from there......
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  2. #72
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    The effective way to go would be to find out WHY they are stacked on top of each other in the back of a pickup-truck. And work from there......
    So police should be able to ask questions and talk to those people right?

  3. #73
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Being brown and not speaking english is not enough reasonable suspicion to place someone in investigative detention.
    According to the new law, it most certainly is, right? The police are given a fairly wide latitude here, and I certainly saw nothing in the law that put any limit whatsoever on 'reasonable suspicion'. Basically, if the police officer wants to check your immigration papers simply because you are hispanic or speaking Spanish, you could face detainment if you don't produce them, or they verify your immigration status by holding you until they do.

    If the law prevents officers from doing this specifically, can you show it to me? I missed it when I read the law, and since this is what the fuss is all about, i'd love to see it.

  4. #74
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    So police should be able to ask questions and talk to those people right?

    It all depends upon the situation. Every situation is different and there is no "This is how "this" is done...." attitude.

    This is why we have judges, there is never ONE answer to an action police officers make. Answers and other information determine the outcome and next decision/question made by police.


    Its just sad that they don't get more respect for what they do.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  5. #75
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    It all depends upon the situation. Every situation is different and there is no "This is how "this" is done...." attitude.

    This is why we have judges, there is never ONE answer to an action police officers make. Answers and other information determine the outcome and next decision/question made by police.


    Its just sad that they don't get more respect for what they do.
    So if there are bodies stackedon top of each other that isn't reasonable suspicion? If it were, there would be a lot more illegal immigrants captured.

  6. #76
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    The problem is that people who don't live in Arizona don't see the things that Arizonians see. Reasonable suspicion should be a broad term so more people who are obviously illegal can be captured. If you aren't an illegal immigrant then why wouldn't you support 'reasonable suspicion' being a broad term? I am fine with getting pulled over because I look Spanish if more illegals are captured.

  7. #77
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    According to the new law, it most certainly is, right?
    I must have missed that in the legislation... Can you point this line of text out to me?

    The police are given a fairly wide latitude here, and I certainly saw nothing in the law that put any limit whatsoever on 'reasonable suspicion'.[/quote]Because reasonable suspicion is a very well known legal standard that has been used for decades. The police officers already know what reasonable suspicion is NOT. The only people pissed off about this are people who have no clue what it is, and think it is some type of new concept.
    In most states, it only takes an officer to have "reasonable suspicion" to conduct a traffic stop. North Carolina included.

    Basically, if the police officer wants to check your immigration papers simply because you are hispanic or speaking Spanish, you could face detainment if you don't produce them, or they verify your immigration status by holding you until they do.
    And that would be that person's own problem for agreeing to answer those questions. Stopping someone because they are hispanic is not reasonable suspicion to stop anyone. However, if an officer walks up to a person on the street and asks them, and they agree to answer the questions, the Officer has done nothing wrong because this is what is called a "voluntary contact". The individual is free to tell the officer they don't feel like talking to them and walk away.


    If the law prevents officers from doing this specifically, can you show it to me? I missed it when I read the law, and since this is what the fuss is all about, i'd love to see it.
    Learn what reasonable suspicion is, its nothing new. Thats the problem here.


    And no, just because someone is hispanic, it is not REASONABLE to believe they are an illegal immigrant. Thus any suspicion would not be REASONABLE. And any action taken on faulty reasonable suspicion would be nullified.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  8. #78
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    So if there are bodies stackedon top of each other that isn't reasonable suspicion? If it were, there would be a lot more illegal immigrants captured.

    Depends on what was viewed.

    If "bodies" are "stacked on top of each other" and appeared to be lifeless.

    I don't think you could find a place in the U.S. where that stop would not be justified.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  9. #79
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    The problem is that people who don't live in Arizona don't see the things that Arizonians see. Reasonable suspicion should be a broad term so more people who are obviously illegal can be captured. If you aren't an illegal immigrant then why wouldn't you support 'reasonable suspicion' being a broad term? I am fine with getting pulled over because I look Spanish if more illegals are captured.

    Jesus christ, I need to make an entire thread dedicated to this...

    REASONABLE SUSPICION IS A WELL DEFINED LEGAL STANDARD THAT HAS BEEN USED BY THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR DECADES.


    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  10. #80
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Jesus christ, I need to make an entire thread dedicated to this...

    REASONABLE SUSPICION IS A WELL DEFINED LEGAL STANDARD THAT HAS BEEN USED BY THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR DECADES.


    Well defined? Then what is the exact definition? There is no room for it to be interpreted?

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