View Poll Results: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

Voters
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  • Incorrect understanding of the law and its consequences.

    27 47.37%
  • Intentional effort to mislead, with a goal of increasing opposition.

    24 42.11%
  • Correct understanding of the law and its consequences.

    11 19.30%
  • Sincere disagreement with both the law and its consequences.

    25 43.86%
  • Other (Please explain).

    7 12.28%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

  1. #61
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by country View Post
    Then why does ICE say they may not process illegals turned over by police?

    Only ICE has the authority to deport them.

    This law isnt about deportation.

    This law makes it a misdemeanor to be in the state illegally.

    So no different from an assault charge, or a DWI.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    So why all the teeth gnashing if nothing happens to them? I'm starting to sound like my granddaughter with all the questions.

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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by country View Post
    So why all the teeth gnashing if nothing happens to them? I'm starting to sound like my granddaughter with all the questions.

    Im not the person you should be asking that question.

    But I can only guess that the oppositions position is they are afraid that people will be stopped by police just because they are hispanic and start trying to verify their legal status.

    Problem is, the opposition fails to read and understand the law.

    An officer has to have already established a lawful contact, via reasonable suspicion of another crime, or consentual contact.. THEN reasonable suspicion of that individuals legal status here can be obtained via whatever sort of information they obtained from that original contact. THEN a check with federal immigration or (eventually) a local database of verified illegal immigrants (because law enforcement typically deal with the same people numerous times). Once probable cause that they are not here legally is established, THEN the arrest can be made.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  4. #64
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Im not the person you should be asking that question.

    But I can only guess that the oppositions position is they are afraid that people will be stopped by police just because they are hispanic and start trying to verify their legal status.

    Problem is, the opposition fails to read and understand the law.

    An officer has to have already established a lawful contact, via reasonable suspicion of another crime, or consentual contact.. THEN reasonable suspicion of that individuals legal status here can be obtained via whatever sort of information they obtained from that original contact. THEN a check with federal immigration or (eventually) a local database of verified illegal immigrants (because law enforcement typically deal with the same people numerous times). Once probable cause that they are not here legally is established, THEN the arrest can be made.
    I read the law, and I didn't see where your summation is correct - specifically this part in bold: "...already established a lawful contact, via reasonable suspicion of another crime, or consentual contact.. THEN reasonable suspicion of that individuals legal status here can be obtained via whatever sort of information they obtained from that original contact."

    From what the law says, the officer can make "lawful contact", and a "reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person". It says nothing about suspicion of another crime or anything like that. Basically, the officers can ask every hispanic individual for proof of their immigration status, right? I certainly see nothing that excludes them from doing so in this law.

  5. #65
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I haven't been paying that much attention to the hype over this new law, but it seems to me that much of it is uninformed or intentionally misleading.

    I read the document: Link to .pdf of the law, will need a reader for .pdf files.

    After reading part of it, so far I can't really see any issue with it, or why it is a bad thing.

    Perhaps I simply cannot parse the legalese to understand the points of contention, but....

    Anyway, on to the poll.

    Why do you think there is a negative response to the new Arizona Immigration law?
    Its REALLY not that complicated. Democrats are opposed to ANY efforts to enforce the immigration laws. Democrat politicians want to use this to stir up racism charges-their standard campaign ploy.

    This has nothing to DO with the Arizona law...for heavens sake...a month after they had bitched, moaned, whined cried, gone on TV calling the supporters racists, Obama, Holder, Napolitano, and virtually every other administration supporter ADMITTED on camera they hadnt even READ the legislation.

    Nah...pure hate politics...thats ALL this is about.

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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its REALLY not that complicated. Democrats are opposed to ANY efforts to enforce the immigration laws. Democrat politicians want to use this to stir up racism charges-their standard campaign ploy.

    This has nothing to DO with the Arizona law...for heavens sake...a month after they had bitched, moaned, whined cried, gone on TV calling the supporters racists, Obama, Holder, Napolitano, and virtually every other administration supporter ADMITTED on camera they hadnt even READ the legislation.

    Nah...pure hate politics...thats ALL this is about.
    Haha you obviously don't live in a border state because the Bush administration never enforced immigration laws either, well if they attempted to, they did a terrible job.

  7. #67
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its REALLY not that complicated. Democrats are opposed to ANY efforts to enforce the immigration laws. Democrat politicians want to use this to stir up racism charges-their standard campaign ploy.

    This has nothing to DO with the Arizona law...for heavens sake...a month after they had bitched, moaned, whined cried, gone on TV calling the supporters racists, Obama, Holder, Napolitano, and virtually every other administration supporter ADMITTED on camera they hadnt even READ the legislation.

    Nah...pure hate politics...thats ALL this is about.
    This isn't really a democrat republican or liberal conservative issue. Both parties are guilty of tossing the salad of illegals and those who aid and harbor them. Yeah pro-illegals on both sides are lying their ass off about Arizona's new anti-illegal immigration law that allows cops to check the legal status of someone they pull over for some other offense. If McCain wasn't Facing reelection he would have have been tossing Calderon's salad just like Obama. Heck his tongue probably would have went in deeper than Obama's tongue when tossing that salad seeing how he tried to make it seem like he was friendlier to illegals than Obama was.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #68
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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by pro-bipartisan View Post
    Haha you obviously don't live in a border state because the Bush administration never enforced immigration laws either, well if they attempted to, they did a terrible job.
    They threw money at it do nothing in order to make it look like they were doing something about it. Bush basically put on the national guard on the border to basically do what the minutemen were already doing for free. Which is put up fence and call the border guards anytime they see someone illegally crossing and no authority to arrest,detain or prevent illegal crossing.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I read the law, and I didn't see where your summation is correct - specifically this part in bold: "...already established a lawful contact, via reasonable suspicion of another crime, or consentual contact.. THEN reasonable suspicion of that individuals legal status here can be obtained via whatever sort of information they obtained from that original contact."

    From what the law says, the officer can make "lawful contact", and a "reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person". It says nothing about suspicion of another crime or anything like that. Basically, the officers can ask every hispanic individual for proof of their immigration status, right? I certainly see nothing that excludes them from doing so in this law.
    No, there is nothing to keep them from doing this under this law.

    There is also nothing that says their refusal to answer the questions = reasonable suspicion.

    Just like if a cop tries to get you to stop and talk to him when he has no reasonable suspicion that you are involved in a crime. A cop can come up and ask random people questions all day long. You are under no obligation to speak with him unless he has reasonable suspicion you were involved in a crime via a BOLO description that you fit and says you were previously involved in some sort of criminal activity and in the area. If he has reasonable suspicion, then were fit what is an in between place between being completely free to leave, and being in "investigative detention".

    Being brown and not speaking english is not enough reasonable suspicion to place someone in investigative detention.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: New Arizona Immigration Law: Why the negative response?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    No, there is nothing to keep them from doing this under this law.

    There is also nothing that says their refusal to answer the questions = reasonable suspicion.

    Just like if a cop tries to get you to stop and talk to him when he has no reasonable suspicion that you are involved in a crime. A cop can come up and ask random people questions all day long. You are under no obligation to speak with him unless he has reasonable suspicion you were involved in a crime via a BOLO description that you fit and says you were previously involved in some sort of criminal activity and in the area. If he has reasonable suspicion, then were fit what is an in between place between being completely free to leave, and being in "investigative detention".

    Being brown and not speaking english is not enough reasonable suspicion to place someone in investigative detention.
    What about when Spanish people are stacked on top of each other in the back of a pick-up truck?

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