View Poll Results: What should be done with the Founders' ideas?

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  • We should build upon them, but not completely transform them.

    50 70.42%
  • They need to be fundamentally transformed.

    6 8.45%
  • They're dead. Who cares what they thought?

    7 9.86%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    8 11.27%
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Thread: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

  1. #51
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    We should not treat the Founding Fathers as if they were gods whose opinions cannot be disagreed with, but it's not a bad idea to read what they had to say.

    After all, even the FFs didn't agree on everything.

    The problem is that many people who should know better (including posters here) think that whenever there is a controversy over the Constitution, all you have to do is see what the FFs say and an answer will magically appear. That concept is ridiculous, of course.

  2. #52
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Hamilton, Madison and Jay wrote them. Madison is considered to be the Father of the Constitution and comments on the absurdity of the modern liberals interpretation of the so-called general welfare clause, in Federalist 41, and a portion of which I already quoted. A lengthier passage follows here:
    Great, you know what Madison's view was. What was Hamilton's?

    "The terms "general Welfare" were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which Preceded; otherwise numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a Nation would have been left without a provision." -Alexander Hamilton, Report on Manufacture

  3. #53
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    They swear to uphold the constitution, not the additional/other writings of the founding fathers. And, the constitution is a fluid document that has been amended over time, as the founding fathers intended.

    Try again.
    So my right to keep and bear arms should include thermo-nuclear arms, by your logic.

    Try again.

  4. #54
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    So my right to keep and bear arms should include thermo-nuclear arms, by your logic.

    Try again.
    Wow. Epic strawman failure.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-15-10 at 07:55 PM.

  5. #55
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Great, you know what Madison's view was. What was Hamilton's?
    Was he specific?

  6. #56
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    We should not treat the Founding Fathers as if they were gods whose opinions cannot be disagreed with, but it's not a bad idea to read what they had to say.

    After all, even the FFs didn't agree on everything.

    The problem is that many people who should know better (including posters here) think that whenever there is a controversy over the Constitution, all you have to do is see what the FFs say and an answer will magically appear. That concept is ridiculous, of course.
    No one is treating them as gods, that's just loading the debate with nonsense.

    It was the ideas they formed out of the enlightenment that were important.
    The Constitution was plainly written, only the foolish and power hungry seek to change it's intent.

    Narrow minded people have a hard time understanding this.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #57
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No one is treating them as gods, that's just loading the debate with nonsense.
    Actually, I've seen many authors, particularly from the lunatic religious right, who want to use quotes from the Founding Fathers as a basis to shift our society over into a much more theocratic stance, with the misguided claim that the founding fathers wanted this to be a strictly Christian nation.

  8. #58
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Wow. Epic strawman failure.
    Not at all. Since the Constitution is fluid, as you assert, then it must encompass the ever-changing definition of Arms.

    Try again.

  9. #59
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Not at all. Since the Constitution is fluid, as you assert, then it must encompass the ever-changing definition of Arms.
    Where is the right to keep and bear arms addressed? See if you can tell me.

  10. #60
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Actually, I've seen many authors, particularly from the lunatic religious right, who want to use quotes from the Founding Fathers as a basis to shift our society over into a much more theocratic stance, with the misguided claim that the founding fathers wanted this to be a strictly Christian nation.
    They are using an appeal to authority as a mean of making their argument.
    That does not mean that they are treating the FF as gods.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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