View Poll Results: What should be done with the Founders' ideas?

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  • We should build upon them, but not completely transform them.

    50 70.42%
  • They need to be fundamentally transformed.

    6 8.45%
  • They're dead. Who cares what they thought?

    7 9.86%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    8 11.27%
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Thread: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

  1. #31
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    The Founders are irrelevant! They failed to foresee the advertising leviathan that has emerged and displaced their noble thoughts and profound commentaries. All tremble before the mighty Flo! Destroyer of the Founders and oppressor of humanity!

    YouTube- Progressive Insurance Commercial - Flo Craves Tacos in "Back Up"


    Egad, how will we ever contend with such a mighty force as thee!?
    You okay there man? Did you just have a little stroke or something?
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  2. #32
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Ignoring the fact that there are plenty of ambiguous and unclear things in the constitution...
    I'm not ignoring that fact. I'm well aware that it contains ambiguities, which is why I think we ought to take into account the Founders' views when interpreting said ambiguities.

    However, there ARE parts of the Constitution that are completely unambiguous, but that doesn't stop people from distorting the plain meaning of words.

    ...it's funny how often conservatives hide behind that argument when it's against something they don't like, and forget all about it when THEY want to make an unconstitutional law. Seems awfully hypocritical don't you think?
    I agree. Not sure what that has to do with me, though.

    You're welcome to your opinion of course. If you want to take the founder's opinions into account when interpreting the constitution, go right ahead, just don't expect everyone to do it. Personally I think their opinions are irrelevant, since they're dead. If they wanted an unambiguous document, they had their chance to write it. They didn't, so it's up to us to interpret it, not them.
    So long as you accept the fact that your interpretation will be inherently inferior to the one informed by the actual writers of the legal document in question.

    I also find it sad that you consider the opinion of such brilliant and principled individuals "irrelevant". Typical liberal hubris.

    Honestly, I greatly respect them for that. I think leaving certain things ambiguous so that they could be interpreted as needed by future generations was a brilliant move on their parts.
    How ironic. You're using the alleged intentions of the Founders to justify your position. I thought they were irrelevant?

    Yawn. Yet another poster, who, when they have no valid counter-arguments results to insults.
    If you don't like being called an ingrate then cease acting like one.

    Again, that's not what I said at all. Stop putting words in my mouth. You're welcome to take the founder's opinions (if you think you know what they were) into account when making your decisions about things, just don't expect the same of everyone.
    You're saying the Founders' opinions are irrelevant. The obvious implication of this is to throw said time period into the trash. That's the logical conclusion of your position; sorry if you don't like having your own position thrown back in your face.

    What's creepy is wanting to give more weight to the opinions of dead people than live ones.
    I never said I wanted to give their opinions MORE weight. I just think that they should be given SOME weight, as opposed to none at all, which is what you're suggesting.

    It helps if you actually remember what was said and by whom.

    What's creepy is wanting our government to stagnate rather than grow and change with the times.
    There's this thing - dunno if you've heard of it - called "the Amendment process". It's a mechanism for change and adaption that was put in the Constitution so as to allow future generations latitude in the governance of their nation. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with it.

  3. #33
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    You okay there man? Did you just have a little stroke or something?
    Just addressing the argument put forth by Mega. Apparently, modern advertising techniques have rendered the Founders' "theories" on human nature irrelevant. I was merely demonstrating the true extent of these devestating techniques. Most assuredly, the Founders could not contend with the likes of the Progressive Lady or the Geico Lizard.

  4. #34
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    I'm not ignoring that fact. I'm well aware that it contains ambiguities, which is why I think we ought to take into account the Founders' views when interpreting said ambiguities.
    People argue over the freedom of speech and what constitutes speech, eg flag burning.
    Last edited by winston53660; 05-15-10 at 01:44 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Just addressing the argument put forth by Mega. Apparently, modern advertising techniques have rendered the Founders' "theories" on human nature irrelevant. I was merely demonstrating the true extent of these devestating techniques. Most assuredly, the Founders could not contend with the likes of the Progressive Lady or the Geico Lizard.
    Ah, I missed that.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    People argue over the freedom of speech and what constitutes speech, eg flag burning.
    Okay? What's your point?

  7. #37
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Ah, I missed that.
    Quite alright, but you're still an ingrate... ; )

  8. #38
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Edited because I decided I'd rather wait until I can reply to everything at once.

    My wife is on my ass to do the dishes. Cheers.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  9. #39
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Lol, typical hyper-partisan response. "Any opinion I disagree with is inherently inferior"

    More overly partisan BS.

    I really don't care what your opinion of me is to be quite honest. I just know that resorting to personal attacks and name-calling is a favorite tactic of lots of people (apparently including you) when they have nothing else to say.
    Dodges and misrepresentations. If that's all you got, then you got nothing at all.

    Unfortunately, I've got to stop there. My wife is on my ass to do the dishes. Cheers.
    Cheers!

    Don't forget to smile while you're scrubbing... : D

  10. #40
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I saw someone on here the other day say that the Founders are dead so who cares what they thought.

    What are your opinions on the Founders' ideas and what we should be doing with them (if anything at all)?
    The ideas are pretty much timeless.
    They are a good basic set of rules without need of revision.

    Anyone who thinks man has changed so much over that time, is mostly impatient about how they want man to change.

    The truth is we are more or less the same as we were 1000 years ago, technology has changed, some ideas have changed but nothing enough to warrant a complete revision of the basic set of rules they created.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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