View Poll Results: What should be done with the Founders' ideas?

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  • We should build upon them, but not completely transform them.

    50 70.42%
  • They need to be fundamentally transformed.

    6 8.45%
  • They're dead. Who cares what they thought?

    7 9.86%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    8 11.27%
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Thread: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

  1. #151
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I don't think they did. Did they need to to pass some sort of qualifying test that legitimizes their other works?
    If you study history, many of the signers of the Declaration lost their lives, or their property. Some of them lost everything they had. They paid a high price for us to have a nation of our own.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If you study history, many of the signers of the Declaration lost their lives, or their property. Some of them lost everything they had. They paid a high price for us to have a nation of our own.
    That's because the British were fags about the whole thing.

  3. #153
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    There is a lot of misinromation taught in our schools about our founding fathers
    For example, imo, Thomas Jefferson was a wino, a plagerist, a slaveholder who sired children from his slaves who spent way too much time in France. Another one is George Washington who I think was a really mean prick. He enforced discipline in his army by executing some of it's soldiers as a warning to others and to enforce discipline in the rans. It takes a real prick to do something like this and not a choir boy. Also, Washington sold out Tom Paine, my favorite founding father, an left him to rot in a Paris prison, after all that Paine had done for this country. Of course he believed in slavery, too.

    Paine, on the other hand was one of the few founding fathers who fought against African slavery in the US. He wrote a famous essay called "African Slavery", about it.

    Some things the founding fathers said will live in infamy, such as "inalienable rights", etc.

    Here is an essay from Tom Paine that is still relevant today.

    Thomas Paine / Dissertations on First Principles of Government
    Last edited by LiberalAvenger; 05-16-10 at 12:58 PM.

  4. #154
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    There is a lot of misinromation taught in our schools about our founding fathers
    For example, imo, Thomas Jefferson was a wino, a plagerist, a slaveholder who sired children from his slaves who spent way too much time in France. Another one is George Washington who I think was a really mean prick. He enforced discipline in his army by executing some of it's soldiers as a warning to others and to enforce discipline in the rans. It takes a real prick to do something like this and not a choir boy. Also, Washington sold out Tom Paine, my favorite founding father, an left him to rot in a Paris prison, after all that Paine had done for this country. Of course he believed in slavery, too.

    Paine, on the other hand was one of the few founding fathers who fought against African slavery in the US. He wrote a famous essay called "African Slavery", about it.

    Some things the founding fathers said will live in infamy, such as "inalienable rights", etc.

    Here is an essay from Tom Paine that is still relevant today.

    Thomas Paine / Dissertations on First Principles of Government
    Well of course they are going to be glorified, because despite their flaws, the contributions they made are still legitimate. Every one of our presidents can be characterized the same way you just described Jefferson and Washington. Isn't it funny that you never see the positive with the negative, only one of the other from the same source?

  5. #155
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphetamine View Post
    Well of course they are going to be glorified, because despite their flaws, the contributions they made are still legitimate. Every one of our presidents can be characterized the same way you just described Jefferson and Washington. Isn't it funny that you never see the positive with the negative, only one of the other from the same source?
    There are other sources but none of them come close to Thomas Paine, IMO.

    Now, what is wrong with criticism? Do you think I am unamerican because of it?

    BTW, I would never be allowed to say something like I just did on the Rush Limbaugh program.

  6. #156
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    There are other sources but none of them come close to Thomas Paine, IMO.

    Now, what is wrong with criticism? Do you think I am unamerican because of it?

    BTW, I would never be allowed to say something like I just did on the Rush Limbaugh program.
    I haven't read up on Paine as much as I have on Adams, Jefferson, and Washington. I'll look into him, though.

    I'm not saying anything is wrong with criticism. In fact, I think it is our duty as citizens to criticize the government. What I am saying is that neither criticism not glorification should be independent of the other. The bad should be balanced with the good. Putting either view by itself is misleading, to say the least.

    Rush Limbaugh is a toolbox. He dated my sister's boyfriend's mom, lolz.

  7. #157
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphetamine View Post
    I haven't read up on Paine as much as I have on Adams, Jefferson, and Washington. I'll look into him, though.

    I'm not saying anything is wrong with criticism. In fact, I think it is our duty as citizens to criticize the government. What I am saying is that neither criticism not glorification should be independent of the other. The bad should be balanced with the good. Putting either view by itself is misleading, to say the least.

    Rush Limbaugh is a toolbox. He dated my sister's boyfriend's mom, lolz.
    That sounds interesting about Limbaugh. Tell me more.

  8. #158
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    An option three selection is from the mentally deficient - from those who favor book burning.
    I chose other, naturally.
    The fathers were smart men, no question.
    We also have smart people today (I hope).
    Lets hear from them and their ideas for today and tomorrow.
    Our founding fathers did not have to face nearly the problems we have today.

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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    That sounds interesting about Limbaugh. Tell me more.

    Whattayamean?

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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphetamine View Post
    Whattayamean?
    Do you know anything about his sex life or drug use. Is he still an addict?

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