View Poll Results: What should be done with the Founders' ideas?

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  • We should build upon them, but not completely transform them.

    50 70.42%
  • They need to be fundamentally transformed.

    6 8.45%
  • They're dead. Who cares what they thought?

    7 9.86%
  • Other (please elaborate)

    8 11.27%
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Thread: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

  1. #111
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yes. So?



    Rawles is no Franklin or Jefferson.
    Maybe, maybe not. He did build upon classic liberal thinking and is a fundemental part of modern liberalism. He is an example of someone who is a modern thinker who did not resort to romanticism like you suggest of all modern thinkers. He would also contend I think that many of the principles in the constitution are ones that most rational people would agree upon if they were in the same situation as our founding fathers were.

  2. #112
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't find much difficulty in understanding them at all. Some people believe that they are interpreted differently, however.
    I'm pretty much assured that there is few to no spelling and punctuation errors.

    With that in mind, we get a person who specializes in 18th century literature and sentence structure to make it understandable in modern English.

    Problem solved.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    To you perhaps, but as I said from the outset of my entry into this conversation:
    And the amendment process is how the constitution is changed, which is why it is an evolving document.


  4. #114
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm pretty much assured that there is few to no spelling and punctuation errors.
    Probably true.

    With that in mind, we get a person who specializes in 18th century literature and sentence structure to make it understandable in modern English.

    Problem solved.
    Wanna see how many different interpretations there are of the Hebrew bible, by linguistic scholars?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #115
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Wanna see how many different interpretations there are of the Hebrew bible, by linguistic scholars?
    Good lord, it's English.

    It's not a 5000 year old dead language.
    (Not saying Hebrew is but the Hebrew Bible is much older and much different than something from 200-300 years ago.)

    I feel like we're reaching around our elbow to get to our ass here.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #116
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    And the amendment process is how the constitution is changed, which is why it is an evolving document.

    Actually no, most people who use the term "evolving document" or "living document" don't have amending in mind at all.

  7. #117
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Good lord, it's English.

    It's not a 5000 year old dead language.
    (Not saying Hebrew is but the Hebrew Bible is much older and much different than something from 200-300 years ago.)

    I feel like we're reaching around our elbow to get to our ass here.
    Read some Old English. It can be pretty confusing at times. Besides, you know those linguists. Can't agree on anything.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #118
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Read some Old English. It can be pretty confusing at times. Besides, you know those linguists. Can't agree on anything.
    Just turn in upside down.
    Things get much clearer.

    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #119
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Just turn in upside down.
    Things get much clearer.

    I believe the founders liked "hard" cider. I believe that could explain a lot.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #120
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    Re: Our Founding Fathers' Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Read some Old English. It can be pretty confusing at times. Besides, you know those linguists. Can't agree on anything.

    Actually it isn't Old English. That would be from about 1000 years ago, like the earliest translations of Beowulf.

    It isn't Middle English. That would be around King James' time, as in the KJV bible, which isn't nearly as hard to understand as the original Beowulf.

    The Founder's words are actually just a slightly archaic version of modern English.


    Acting as if the Constitution is written in some kind of indecipherable language, like Babylonian, is just a bit ridiculous. It isn't hard to understand.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-16-10 at 12:20 AM.

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