• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the government provide ballots in languages other than English?

Should the government provide ballots in languages other than English?

  • Total voters
    64
Brand new citizens IE naturalized citizens have to pass a english comprehension test before they can even become naturalized citizens. So the idea that a brand new citizen can not understand english is laughable and absurd.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize there was a law that they had to speak it forever. Also...

molten_dragon said:
We should also add the provision that any text that is intended for public consumption (i.e. descriptions of issues on ballots, etc.) should be written in common English that the average person only needs to read once to understand.
Click to expand...

Apparently english speakers dont even understand the ballots or something.

So how can a citizen by birth, having gone to school and learned English as their primary language, having grown up in a country where English is the primary and common language, be more comfortable reading in Spanish?

I obviously lack some information that would lead to my understanding why the situation is as you claim.
Click to expand...

Precisely, you're not latino.
 
webrockk said:
In most circumstances, I agree.

Determining the financial stability... or potential for it, a modicum of emotional stability, criminal history and a hint of sanity....as is required in almost every other country on the planet prior to opening the doors, takes time for a massive bureaucracy. Surely you've been to the DMV. :)
Click to expand...

a world renowned brain surgeon from say India ought to get cleared faster than a dishwasher from China.
 
The Mark said:
Yes...And?

How does that change my point?
Click to expand...

If you want to restrict voting based on people's understanding of the language or the system, you'll have to look seriously at our own population.
 
webrockk said:
Is that all you would require?
Click to expand...
In my area, yes.

Not as busy as, say, New York City and surrounding areas, perhaps.

The Harrisburg DMV/PennDOT complex.
 
Hoplite said:
If you want to restrict voting based on people's understanding of the language or the system, you'll have to look seriously at our own population.
Click to expand...

And yet, Tancredo was eviscerated by the left for publically suggesting our own population needs a little civic tweaking.

What's it gonna be?
 
Groucho said:
We're talking about ballot questions after all, not names of candidates which are never translated anyway.
Click to expand...

Actually, in some languages we do translate candidate names and place names (at least on the ballots I've worked on). It's primarily Asian languages; Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and so on.

Groucho said:
Ballot questions are often confusing enough in English!
Click to expand...

Truth.
 
Glinda said:
Actually, in some languages we do translate candidate names and place names (at least on the ballots I've worked on). It's primarily Asian languages; Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and so on.
Click to expand...

Oh, actually that makes sense, because they don't use the Roman alphabet. Didn't think of that.
 
I don't see why we couldn't have ballots with more languages. For electronic voting, the software should be updated to include these languages. Paper ballots should be printed in other languages too. Not just English.
 
Goshin said:
We need to legally make English the common language.

A nation can survive being multi-cultural, perhaps... I doubt a nation can long survive having too many citizens who are unable to communicate with most other citizens.
Click to expand...

India seems to do just fine. :shrug:
 
Phantom said:
I don't see why we couldn't have ballots with more languages.
Click to expand...

Its not necessary and it is a waste of money to have ballots in more than one language seeing how only US citizens can vote.
 
jamesrage said:
Its not necessary and it is a waste of money to have ballots in more than one language seeing how only US citizens can vote.
Click to expand...
So EVERYBODY in the US speaks perfect English?
 
Hoplite said:
So EVERYBODY in the US speaks perfect English?
Click to expand...

You do not need to be a grammar nazi douche to be able to read a ballot. However every citizen should be able to proficiently speak,read and write in English seeing how education is mandatory. Naturalized citizens have to pass a english proficiency test before they can even be a naturalized citizen. Non-citizens do not get to vote in elections.
 
There shouldn't be a national English requirement because theoretically (and minimally in practice) not every (territory --> state) admitted to the Union consists of English speakers. Louisiana spoke Cajun French when it was admitted and still maintains a presence in certain strips, the possessions ceded to us during the Mexican War spoke Spanish and have had a perpetual presence there ever since, Hawaii speaks a Polynesian language, and Puerto Rico, the most probable candidate as the 51st state, speaks Puerto Rican Spanish. Then there are the Native American languages in their respective states. Culture is a local affair, localities should decide on how to administer the ballots to the individuals comprising those cultures.

Under Federalism, there is no more need for a national language than there is for the European Union to have a national language.
 
Last edited:
Morality Games said:
There shouldn't be a national English requirement because theoretically (and minimally in practice) not every (territory --> state) admitted to the Union consists of English speakers. Louisiana spoke Cajun French when it was admitted and still maintains a presence in certain strips, the possessions ceded to us during the Mexican War spoke Spanish and have had a perpetual presence there ever since, Hawaii speaks a Polynesian language, and Puerto Rico, the most probable candidate as the 51st state, speaks Puerto Rican Spanish. Then there are the Native American languages in their respective states. Culture is a local affair, localities should decide on how to administer the ballots to the individuals comprising those cultures.

Under Federalism, there is no more need for a national language than there is for the European Union to have a national language.
Click to expand...

All of which totally ignores the present laws..... good job.
 
Morality Games said:
You'll have to elaborate.
Click to expand...

To become a naturalized citizen of this country you have to pass a test..... that is law. Part of that test is to prove that you speak, read, and write English..... that is law.

To say that this shouldn't be the way things are flies in the face of existing law.
 
jamesrage said:
You do not need to be a grammar nazi douche to be able to read a ballot.
Click to expand...
No, you dont. But you need to be able to understand what the ballot is saying. For someone who doesnt speak English or speak it very well, that's going to be a problem.

However every citizen should be able to proficiently speak,read and write in English seeing how education is mandatory.
Click to expand...
Most American born citizens cant read, write, or speak English proficiently.

Naturalized citizens have to pass a english proficiency test before they can even be a naturalized citizen. Non-citizens do not get to vote in elections.
Click to expand...
That is true, however not the issue.

The problem is even people who are born in the US, if they are born into ESL families, they may not have a great understanding of English. They can get by, they can speak basic English and read basic signs, but reading a complex piece of text in English is more than they're used to.
 
Hoplite said:
No, you dont. But you need to be able to understand what the ballot is saying. For someone who doesnt speak English or speak it very well, that's going to be a problem.

Most American born citizens cant read, write, or speak English proficiently.

That is true, however not the issue.

The problem is even people who are born in the US, if they are born into ESL families, they may not have a great understanding of English. They can get by, they can speak basic English and read basic signs, but reading a complex piece of text in English is more than they're used to.
Click to expand...

If you think a ballot is a piece of complex text then you have poor vocabulary and english skills. This is America, learn English (not directly at you, just the people who don't know the language).
 
pro-bipartisan said:
If you think a ballot is a piece of complex text then you have poor vocabulary and english skills. This is America, learn English (not directly at you, just the people who don't know the language).
Click to expand...

Let's take a look at one

Proposition 14
http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-measures/pdf/sca-4-bill-20090219-chaptered.pdf

Prop 14 Excerpt said:
This measure, which would be known as the “Top Two Primaries Act,”
would provide for a “voter-nominated primary election” for each state
elective office and congressional office in California, in which a voter may
vote at the primary election for any candidate for a congressional or state
elective office without regard to the political party preference disclosed by
the candidate or the voter. The measure would further provide that a
candidate for a congressional or state elective office generally may choose
whether to have his or her political party preference indicated upon the
ballot for that office in the manner to be provided by statute. The measure
would prohibit a political party or party central committee from nominating
a candidate for a congressional or state elective office at the primary, but
the measure would permit a political party or party central committee to
endorse, support, or oppose a candidate for congressional or state elective
office. The 2 candidates receiving the 2 highest vote totals for each office
at a primary election, regardless of party preference, would then compete
for the office at the ensuing general election. This measure would require
the Legislature to provide for partisan elections for presidential candidates,
political party committees, and party central steering committees.
Click to expand...

Now do you really think someone who doesnt speak English very well is going to be able to read and understand that clearly?
 
Hoplite said:
No, you dont. But you need to be able to understand what the ballot is saying. For someone who doesnt speak English or speak it very well, that's going to be a problem.
Click to expand...

The only people that would be a problem for are non-citizens. Last I checked education is mandatory, so anyone born here should be able to read,write and speak english.

Most American born citizens cant read, write, or speak English proficiently.
Click to expand...

What evidence is there of this?


The problem is even people who are born in the US, if they are born into ESL families, they may not have a great understanding of English.
Click to expand...

Those kids still have to attend school. So your point is null.
 
jamesrage said:
The only people that would be a problem for are non-citizens. Last I checked education is mandatory, so anyone born here should be able to read,write and speak english.
Click to expand...
That is an incredibly naieve statement. Simply because one goes to school does not guarantee one learns something.

What evidence is there of this?
Click to expand...
Nearly half of America's adults are poor readers, or "functionally illiterate." They can't carry out simply tasks like balancing check books, reading drug labels or writing essays for a job.
-National Adult Literacy Survery

21 million Americans can't read at all, 45 million are marginally illiterate and one-fifth of high school graduates can't read their diplomas.
Reference
-Department of Justice

More than 20 percent of adults read at or below a fifth-grade level - far below the level needed to earn a living wage.
-National Institute for Literacy, Fast Facts on Literacy

50 percent of American adults are unable to read an eighth grade level book.
Reference
-Jonathan Kozol, Illiterate America

According to the 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), 37 percent of fourth graders and 26 percent of eighth graders cannot read at the basic level; and on the 2002 NAEP 26 percent of twelfth graders cannot read at the basic level. That is, when reading grade appropriate text these students cannot extract the general meaning or make obvious connections between the text and their own experiences or make simple inferences from the text. In other words, they cannot understand what they have read.

44 million adults in the U.S. can't read well enough to read a simple story to a child.
-National Adult Literacy Survey (1992) NCED, U.S. Department of Education

Why do millions of Americans struggle with reading and writing? - CSMonitor.com

Those kids still have to attend school. So your point is null.
Click to expand...
As I have demonstrated, even those who DO attend school are generally not much better off.
 
Hoplite said:
That is an incredibly naieve statement. Simply because one goes to school does not guarantee one learns something.
Click to expand...

It should guarantee that they can at least read, write, or speak English proficiently.

Nearly half of America's adults are poor readers, or "functionally illiterate." They can't carry out simply tasks like balancing check books, reading drug labels or writing essays for a job.
-National Adult Literacy Survery

21 million Americans can't read at all, 45 million are marginally illiterate and one-fifth of high school graduates can't read their diplomas.
Reference
-Department of Justice

More than 20 percent of adults read at or below a fifth-grade level - far below the level needed to earn a living wage.
-National Institute for Literacy, Fast Facts on Literacy

50 percent of American adults are unable to read an eighth grade level book.
Reference
-Jonathan Kozol, Illiterate America

According to the 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), 37 percent of fourth graders and 26 percent of eighth graders cannot read at the basic level; and on the 2002 NAEP 26 percent of twelfth graders cannot read at the basic level. That is, when reading grade appropriate text these students cannot extract the general meaning or make obvious connections between the text and their own experiences or make simple inferences from the text. In other words, they cannot understand what they have read.

44 million adults in the U.S. can't read well enough to read a simple story to a child.
-National Adult Literacy Survey (1992) NCED, U.S. Department of Education

Why do millions of Americans struggle with reading and writing? - CSMonitor.com


As I have demonstrated, even those who DO attend school are generally not much better off.
Click to expand...

So your reason for supporting multilingual ballots is illiteracy and crappy teachers? Seems to me that if they are illiterate or a dumb ass then a ballot in another language is not going to do them any good.

I also have to wonder if they are taken into account whether or not those are citizens,immigrants or illegals who are illiterate and how many people they actually surveyed.
 
jamesrage said:
It should guarantee that they can at least read, write, or speak English proficiently.
Click to expand...
As I have CLEARLY demonstrated, that is not necessarily the case even with people who are born here.

So your reason for supporting multilingual ballots is illiteracy and crappy teachers? Seems to me that if they are illiterate or a dumb ass then a ballot in another language is not going to do them any good.
Click to expand...
If they are illiterate in English or cant read it very well, a ballot in their native language will allow them to take part in the democratic process as is the right of a citizen.
 
TurtleDude said:
You shouldn't be able to become a US citizen until you can read and write english. If you were born in America and cannot, you are too stupid to vote and should be DQ'd as a matter of law
Click to expand...

as long as "too stupid to vote" includes "too stupid to run for office".....:2razz:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom