View Poll Results: Obama: What do you believe

Voters
116. You may not vote on this poll
  • He hates all white people

    42 36.21%
  • He is a muslim

    49 42.24%
  • He isnt a citizen

    38 32.76%
  • He wants the terrorist to win

    17 14.66%
  • He wants to take away your guns

    62 53.45%
  • He wants America to fail

    49 42.24%
  • He is the Anti-Christ

    10 8.62%
  • He is a socialist

    62 53.45%
  • none of the above

    36 31.03%
  • you disagree with the whole poll

    21 18.10%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Obama: What do you really believe?

  1. #111
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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I can agree somewhat, but I was mainly thinking things like "Bush is the devil, ?Bush did 9/11, Bush went to war for oil..." And all those crazy things that were said and people actually believed.

    On a side note, I like what Palin believes and I agree with her on several things, but she isn't presidential material (nor do I think she has the intelligence to run the country).
    I don't think Bush was purposefully evil, but I do think he was (and still is) blinded by his own perceived ideological brilliance and sense of destiny. His main problem is that he assumed that his schemes would work without a hitch and never had a backup plan.

    His sense of "nothing can go wrong because I have God and good morals on my side" is amplified many times over in Palin and that is why I think she would be a disaster. Like Bush, she lacks the mental bandwidth to be able to bend with circumstance.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 05-21-10 at 10:42 AM.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't think Bush was purposefully evil, but I do think he was (and still is) blinded by his own perceived ideological brilliance and sense of destiny. His main problem is that he assumed that his schemes would work without a hitch and never had a backup plan.

    His sense of "nothing can go wrong because I have God and good morals on my side" is amplified many times over in Palin and that is why I think she would be a disaster. Like Bush, she lacks the mental bandwidth to be able to bend with circumstance.
    I'm sorry are we back to talking about Obama again?

  3. #113
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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    I'm sorry are we back to talking about Obama again?
    I do think Obama suffers from that some as well, but it is relatively minor. He seems to have a much bigger pragmatic streak than our last president.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 05-21-10 at 10:48 AM.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I do think Obama suffers from that some as well, but not to the degree of the last president.
    I certainly would not accuse Obama of believing God was on his side...at least not the same God Bush believes in. As for the degree...I've yet to hear of (partially because I don't listen, and can't stand to hear) Obama apologizing for breaking campaign promises, or forcing his agenda upon the American people.

    My reason for why I don't much care for listening to Obama speak? His state of the Union address where he went on to talk about how those in the armed forces deserve, and I would assume have his, respect; without for one moment acknowledging and apologizing to those who serve and have served at GITMO. I don't know the full scale of what is happening there, but I do know that our military does not deserve to be slandered and smeared as the men and women who serve there have been.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    I certainly would not accuse Obama of believing God was on his side...at least not the same God Bush believes in. As for the degree...I've yet to hear of (partially because I don't listen, and can't stand to hear) Obama apologizing for breaking campaign promises, or forcing his agenda upon the American people.
    I guess I need to ask which campaign promises you speak of. Also, do you consider him trying to follow through, but not being where he wants to be to be the same as breaking them?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    My reason for why I don't much care for listening to Obama speak? His state of the Union address where he went on to talk about how those in the armed forces deserve, and I would assume have his, respect; without for one moment acknowledging and apologizing to those who serve and have served at GITMO. I don't know the full scale of what is happening there, but I do know that our military does not deserve to be slandered and smeared as the men and women who serve there have been.
    I do not recall where he called out those who served at Gitmo specifically in a disrespectful manner. I know of many occasions where he did state that the whole enterprise was a mistake though.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I guess I need to ask which campaign promises you speak of. Also, do you consider him trying to follow through, but not being where he wants to be to be the same as breaking them?
    Staying with the GITMO example, he promised to close it down within 6 months of coming into office I believe? The other promises (please correct me if I'm wrong, and he did not make any of these promises, as I obviously never followed his campaign) involve his promise of bipartisanship, and an administration where all the policy decisions would be available for review by the public for 72 hours before it gets decided on. I consider failure to follow through on a set (by him) timeline a failure; whether it is actually breaking a promise...

    Allow me the use of this analogy. I apply for a job (and somehow have no clue where the job site is located) and I am hired on; during my interview I'm asked if I am punctual. I tell the interviewer that I am. I arrive late my first day on the job, because I failed to plan for the two hour drive to the job site and instead only allotted myself thirty minutes to get to work. Am I still a punctual person at this point?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I do not recall where he called out those who served at Gitmo specifically in a disrespectful manner. I know of many occasions where he did state that the whole enterprise was a mistake though.
    I apologize, my emotions tend to get the better of me when the issue involves veterans and those who serve in the armed forces. That said, I am not sure we will agree, but I will certainly try to explain my perspective on this matter. Having been elected President, Mr. Obama has inherited a number of titles; amongst them is Commander in Chief, meaning he is the literal (though in practice, often figurative) head of our armed forces. While I have no objection to anyone holding the opinion the whole enterprise our nation undertook at GITMO was a mistake; I think for him to say it, given his status as the Commander-in-Chief, that may not have been the most diplomatic thing to say about an enterprise in which those under his charge are undertaking.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    Staying with the GITMO example, he promised to close it down within 6 months of coming into office I believe?
    My personal view is that he misjudged how much of a cluster*** the previous administration created down there.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    The other promises (please correct me if I'm wrong, and he did not make any of these promises, as I obviously never followed his campaign) involve his promise of bipartisanship
    He did seem to try very hard with this one as well. Obviously though this does not mean he can bend over backwards. I think he made a more than reasonable attempt though. Consider how the left is screaming at him for how much he has done in this regard.

    Ultimately, the gap here is pretty wide and neither side is satisfied.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    and an administration where all the policy decisions would be available for review by the public for 72 hours before it gets decided on. I consider failure to follow through on a set (by him) timeline a failure; whether it is actually breaking a promise...
    I agree. He screwed the pooch with this one. I am mad at him about it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    Allow me the use of this analogy. I apply for a job (and somehow have no clue where the job site is located) and I am hired on; during my interview I'm asked if I am punctual. I tell the interviewer that I am. I arrive late my first day on the job, because I failed to plan for the two hour drive to the job site and instead only allotted myself thirty minutes to get to work. Am I still a punctual person at this point?
    No, but I don't think its a very good comparison. I think in this case, it would be more like not foreseeing a traffic stopping accident. He was not in a position to know the complexity of the situation since a lot of it is designated secret and a national security interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    I apologize, my emotions tend to get the better of me when the issue involves veterans and those who serve in the armed forces. That said, I am not sure we will agree, but I will certainly try to explain my perspective on this matter. Having been elected President, Mr. Obama has inherited a number of titles; amongst them is Commander in Chief, meaning he is the literal (though in practice, often figurative) head of our armed forces. While I have no objection to anyone holding the opinion the whole enterprise our nation undertook at GITMO was a mistake; I think for him to say it, given his status as the Commander-in-Chief, that may not have been the most diplomatic thing to say about an enterprise in which those under his charge are undertaking.
    Let me preface my response by stating that I have never been in the military and I do not know many RL people who have been so our perspectives may be different. The role of commander in chief is important but one of the primary aspects of that role is setting the mission. For me, there is a very clear and strong distinction between how one feels about the mission and how one feels about those who perform the mission. It is the same as a business, many businesses cause great harm, but many in individual job roles are simply doing their jobs and carry no blame.

    I cannot see how anyone can realistically fault those who are doing their jobs with the overall mission itself. They are two different things to me and not respecting one has no bearing on the other. Good soldiers can be assigned to bad missions and bad soldiers can be assigned to good missions.

    The closest parallel I can draw would be the CEO of the company I work for saying that what the company does is wrong. I personally would not care as long as I got paid and my job stayed secure. Now the military is more than just a job as it is also a community and for many a personal mission, so if I take that into account, I can sort of see where you are coming from. However, the truth should always be allowed to come out. If a mission is bad than it is bad (and in this case, I think it is) and we should not stop doing bad things because people's feelings might get hurt. I might sound harsh, but I think there is a real need for this distinction.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 05-21-10 at 11:32 AM.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Megaprogman, I would say we're mostly in agreement, and I appreciate the civil nature of this discourse and the opportunity to have it. I will point out where we disagree entirely though, is that Obama could not have known how complex the situation at GITMO is; under your premise that much of what was going on there was classified. Correct me please if my memory fails in this matter, the reason the mainstream media has the opinion in regards to what takes place in GITMO is because several people had the opportunity to go observe and report on what took place there. I assure you if any of that was classified information, with the exception of members of Congress, no civilian would have been allowed to witness AND report on any of what took place. The military is not at all lax when it comes to trying (and failing in humorous ways) to protect classified information. I believe the information had to have been available to him, but he and/or his staff failed to do their due dilligence.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    Megaprogman, I would say we're mostly in agreement, and I appreciate the civil nature of this discourse and the opportunity to have it. I will point out where we disagree entirely though, is that Obama could not have known how complex the situation at GITMO is; under your premise that much of what was going on there was classified. Correct me please if my memory fails in this matter, the reason the mainstream media has the opinion in regards to what takes place in GITMO is because several people had the opportunity to go observe and report on what took place there. I assure you if any of that was classified information, with the exception of members of Congress, no civilian would have been allowed to witness AND report on any of what took place. The military is not at all lax when it comes to trying (and failing in humorous ways) to protect classified information. I believe the information had to have been available to him, but he and/or his staff failed to do their due dilligence.
    Perhaps you are right. I guess the reason I made this assumption is because of the Bush administrations zealousness in keeping information and not being transparent, coupled with Obama's relatively quick change in tune about Gitmo when he became president.

    It lead me to believe that he found out something that he did not know before as I believe his sentiment about trying to close it is sincere.

    And you are welcome. It is always a nice day at DP when I am not being called an idiot or other name for being honest about what I believe. I try to extend the same courtesy to others unless they prove themselves incapable of understanding or appreciating the respect.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 05-21-10 at 11:41 AM.

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    Re: Obama: What do you really believe?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheServantCharles View Post
    I certainly would not accuse Obama of believing God was on his side...at least not the same God Bush believes in. As for the degree...I've yet to hear of (partially because I don't listen, and can't stand to hear) Obama apologizing for breaking campaign promises, or forcing his agenda upon the American people.

    My reason for why I don't much care for listening to Obama speak? His state of the Union address where he went on to talk about how those in the armed forces deserve, and I would assume have his, respect; without for one moment acknowledging and apologizing to those who serve and have served at GITMO. I don't know the full scale of what is happening there, but I do know that our military does not deserve to be slandered and smeared as the men and women who serve there have been.
    He did sign the papers for a military pay raise this year. Of course social security did not get a cola this year. I don't think Obama has ever made a trip to a grocery store lately.

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