View Poll Results: What Requirements should we Impose?

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  • Minimum IQ Level

    24 37.50%
  • Pass Basic Literacy test

    5 7.81%
  • Be able to pay Poll Tax

    1 1.56%
  • Be able to pass test about a candidates position

    4 6.25%
  • No Requirements should be made

    30 46.88%
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Thread: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

  1. #71
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Well. I think it all depends on how we define perfection. To me, a perfect world would be one without evil, intentional or unintentional. For that to exists, people would have to be different than what they currently are. Realistically, we will never get there, but I am ok with that too.

    But yes, I consider the elimination of evil to be a indicator of perfection than freedom since freedom is often a relative term that is based on the boundaries of one's perception, imagination, circumstances, and will anyway. If the perception, will, and imagination were different for these more evolved people than they would not be any less free. In fact, they likely would be more free since they would be and have what they desire.
    Without freedom, for me there is no 'perfection' possible. And with freedom, government in some form is necessary. But as you say it is all in perspective.

    In any case, our imperfect nation has now made it possible for people to register and vote casually, effortlessly, without intention of purpose, or without thinking, and in too many cases without even being required to prove their identity. I can believe that all who think it should be that way are not evil.

    I want registration and voting to require effort, thought, intention of purpose, and requirement that integrity be enforced within the system. And I don't believe that my want arises out of anything evil either.

    I suppose very good people can disagree on that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #72
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Without freedom, for me there is no 'perfection' possible. And with freedom, government in some form is necessary. But as you say it is all in perspective.

    In any case, our imperfect nation has now made it possible for people to register and vote casually, effortlessly, without intention of purpose, or without thinking, and in too many cases without even being required to prove their identity. I can believe that all who think it should be that way are not evil.

    I want registration and voting to require effort, thought, intention of purpose, and requirement that integrity be enforced within the system. And I don't believe that my want arises out of anything evil either.

    I suppose very good people can disagree on that.
    I think our main difference is that you seem to want to find the best system possible based on what raw material we have. This is fine and ultimately it is what politics are all about.

    For me though, I ultimately see human nature as one of our fundamental problems that will prevent us from truly being free. Obviously though, this does not mean I am going to attempt to be a mad scientist and do horrible things, but that is simply how I see it. I took the idea of perfection and ran with it.

    However, we are stuck with the world we have, so we should make it as good for as many people as possible. Whatever that means to each of us since we are limited to our own thoughts.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 05-14-10 at 03:54 PM.

  3. #73
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    why should any citizen not have the right to vote, they still live in the country, and should have a say in it, whether they're intelligent or not. But if it were to be implemented, those that are exempt from voting should also be exempt from taxes, as they wouldn't have a say in how its spent.
    And the, equally, only those that pay taxes should be able to vote, so that the entitled classes cannot vote to retain said entitlements.

  4. #74
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    a simple test asking which party a candidate belongs to, whether he/she has expressd free-market principles as the way to go, or government regulation, pro choice or pro life, etc. Like 10 questions, with a 60% passing rate needed to vote.
    Hey -- if we should have to pass a test to have a gun, then a test to vote seems perfectly reasonable.

  5. #75
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    And the, equally, only those that pay taxes should be able to vote, so that the entitled classes cannot vote to retain said entitlements.
    Sticky wicket here though along with the difficulty of proving that one pays taxes. And everybody does pay something in taxes just by living their lives.

    The danger comes, however, in exempting whole big blocks of people from incurring the consequences of tax policy. When 50% of Americans pay little or no federal income taxes, for instance, that group becomes interested in voting for people who will require the other 50% to carry the whole burden, and they are less likely to care what sort of burden that other half carries.

    So the solution is to ensure that all pay a proportionate share of the taxes so that everybody shares in the consequences of changes in tax policy. Then perhaps more will pay attention to the core philosophy and track record of those they elect to office.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  6. #76
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Sticky wicket here though along with the difficulty of proving that one pays taxes. And everybody does pay something in taxes just by living their lives.

    The danger comes, however, in exempting whole big blocks of people from incurring the consequences of tax policy. When 50% of Americans pay little or no federal income taxes, for instance, that group becomes interested in voting for people who will require the other 50% to carry the whole burden, and they are less likely to care what sort of burden that other half carries.

    So the solution is to ensure that all pay a proportionate share of the taxes so that everybody shares in the consequences of changes in tax policy. Then perhaps more will pay attention to the core philosophy and track record of those they elect to office.
    You're on a roll.

    Excellent commentary.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  7. #77
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Sticky wicket here though along with the difficulty of proving that one pays taxes. And everybody does pay something in taxes just by living their lives.

    The danger comes, however, in exempting whole big blocks of people from incurring the consequences of tax policy. When 50% of Americans pay little or no federal income taxes, for instance, that group becomes interested in voting for people who will require the other 50% to carry the whole burden, and they are less likely to care what sort of burden that other half carries.

    So the solution is to ensure that all pay a proportionate share of the taxes so that everybody shares in the consequences of changes in tax policy. Then perhaps more will pay attention to the core philosophy and track record of those they elect to office.

    As I understand it, a strictly proportional share in the Federal budget would be about $12,000 per person --- every man woman and child.

    If I had to pay $24,000 each year for me and my (minor) son, we wouldn't have enough money left to live on. Literally. Lots of other people in the same boat.

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  8. #78
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I understand it, a strictly proportional share in the Federal budget would be about $12,000 per person --- every man woman and child.

    If I had to pay $24,000 each year for me and my (minor) son, we wouldn't have enough money left to live on. Literally. Lots of other people in the same boat.
    What does that tell you then?

    They are spending to much money.
    On the other hand, are you receiving $24k worth of services?
    Probably not, so it wouldn't be proportionally attributed to you like that.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #79
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Sticky wicket here though along with the difficulty of proving that one pays taxes.
    A simple check of the 1040 will take care of that.

    And everybody does pay something in taxes just by living their lives.
    Well, that's true, but when I'm speaking, I'm referring refer to income tax.

    The danger comes, however, in exempting whole big blocks of people from incurring the consequences of tax policy. When 50% of Americans pay little or no federal income taxes, for instance, that group becomes interested in voting for people who will require the other 50% to carry the whole burden, and they are less likely to care what sort of burden that other half carries.
    That's kind of the point -- if you arent paying taxes, then you should have no say on how taxes are spent.

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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I understand it, a strictly proportional share in the Federal budget would be about $12,000 per person --- every man woman and child.
    If you look at it on a per-capta basis, yes.
    If you made it proportional to income, then it would depend on the proportion and your income.

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