View Poll Results: What Requirements should we Impose?

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  • Minimum IQ Level

    24 37.50%
  • Pass Basic Literacy test

    5 7.81%
  • Be able to pay Poll Tax

    1 1.56%
  • Be able to pass test about a candidates position

    4 6.25%
  • No Requirements should be made

    30 46.88%
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Thread: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    I agree that they are people who are too uninformed to be allowed to vote. Watch Leno's on the street interviews sometime (et.al.). It's horrifying to think that these people vote. However, I do not agree with any of your choices for determining qualification.

    Speaking and reading English should be required. However, that's difficult for some native born citizens! Doesn't mean they don't understand what's going on. Being able to read and write isn't even prerequisite for high government office. Look at AG Holder. He voted against the AZ law without even reading it.

    One thing I do agree with is that all should be required to perform extensive public service (years) to qualify to vote and for naturalized citiazenship. Now let's figure out what "public service" should be required and get the amendment process underway.
    Last edited by LowRevs; 05-15-10 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Left out an 's
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

  2. #92
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    A per capita tax would be neither constructive or reasonable.

    But if everybody paid an equal percentage of their income, the lower income people would pay relatively small amounts compared to the high income people. 10% of $10,000 is $1,000 or about $83/month. If $83 a month makes the difference between having enough to live on and not having enough to live on, you have a lot bigger problem than the tax code.

    The other factor in that is such a plan would be a tremendous boost to the economy so that most working people would have opportunity to make substantially more than any amount they were assessed in taxes.

    And there would be no incentive at all to keep one's income below the taxable level.

    Depends on the tax rate. If the tax rate is 10%, maybe everyone could manage.

    10% won't pay for the Federal government. 20% wouldn't. If we cut the existing budget in half, maybe 15-20% would. Lotsa luck with that.

    What about state taxes? Local tax? Property tax? Medicare/medicaid/SocSec/etc? If I have to pay all that crap AND pay the Fedgov 15-20% I'm going to be screwed.

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  3. #93
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowRevs View Post
    One thing I do agree with is that all should be required to perform extensive public service (years) to qualify to vote and for naturalized citiazenship. Now let's figure out what "public service" should be required and get the amendment process underway.
    The problem with requiring public service is the nature of the service. California currently requires 30 hours, in order to graduate from high school. One of the more common ways to meet the requirement is helping with an election campaign. So we have the government compelling children to work toward getting the government elected. The conflict of interest there is blinding. And because the "service" only counts if it's approved in advance by some designated teacher, it's easy to see how political motives creep in. I find it unlikely that praying with hospice patients is as likely to be approved as working in a needle exchange. (a surprisingly common choice)

    While in principal I like the idea of community service, it seems likely to end up as little more than forced labor for the dominant party's pet projects.

  4. #94
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Depends on the tax rate. If the tax rate is 10%, maybe everyone could manage.

    10% won't pay for the Federal government. 20% wouldn't. If we cut the existing budget in half, maybe 15-20% would. Lotsa luck with that.

    What about state taxes? Local tax? Property tax? Medicare/medicaid/SocSec/etc? If I have to pay all that crap AND pay the Fedgov 15-20% I'm going to be screwed.
    You don't know that it wouldn't pay for the Federal government. Vigorous economic growth with positive effects on hiring, wages, GNP, etc. would funnel billions of dollars into the treasury that isn't being produced now. And I wonder just how many billions or trillions would be saved if we had a government who respected the effort required to earn a tax dollar and who treated that with as much care as we treat it ourselves?

    One thing is for sure that over the last 70+ years, Congress has spent every dime it has collected and then some. Do you honestly believe you have received fair value for all that money spent?

    Every year more and more money has gone into the U.S. Treasury and every year many billions more are added to the National Debt. That debt clock never stopped running even during the brief 'surplus' of the Clinton administration. There is no reason to think that giving the government more money to spend will produce any different results.

    The only solution is to put the government on a strict diet by strictly limiting the amount it has to spend and strictly limiting how it is allowed to spend the people's money.

    And the only way we are going to accomplish that is for every American to have a stake in the costs of government.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #95
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    You don't know that it wouldn't pay for the Federal government. Vigorous economic growth with positive effects on hiring, wages, GNP, etc. would funnel billions of dollars into the treasury that isn't being produced now. And I wonder just how many billions or trillions would be saved if we had a government who respected the effort required to earn a tax dollar and who treated that with as much care as we treat it ourselves?
    The bolded portion could also read "if a miracle happens".

    One thing is for sure that over the last 70+ years, Congress has spent every dime it has collected and then some. Do you honestly believe you have received fair value for all that money spent?
    Nope. That doesn't mean I want them to get MORE of my money, which is what would happen under your plan. Do you understand that just a little bit more taxes, and I'd have to drop my healthcare insurance? Do you understand that a little more still, and I'd be without electricity and maybe in bankruptcy court? Do you understand that the cost of things we need has gone up between 20-50% over the past few years, while wages have not increased?


    Every year more and more money has gone into the U.S. Treasury and every year many billions more are added to the National Debt. That debt clock never stopped running even during the brief 'surplus' of the Clinton administration. There is no reason to think that giving the government more money to spend will produce any different results.

    The only solution is to put the government on a strict diet by strictly limiting the amount it has to spend and strictly limiting how it is allowed to spend the people's money.

    And the only way we are going to accomplish that is for every American to have a stake in the costs of government.
    That's fine, but the point I've repeated many times is this: Nobody's tax burden should push their head underwater. No politician or plan should ever violate this cardinal rule.

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  6. #96
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The bolded portion could also read "if a miracle happens".

    Nope. That doesn't mean I want them to get MORE of my money, which is what would happen under your plan. Do you understand that just a little bit more taxes, and I'd have to drop my healthcare insurance? Do you understand that a little more still, and I'd be without electricity and maybe in bankruptcy court? Do you understand that the cost of things we need has gone up between 20-50% over the past few years, while wages have not increased?

    That's fine, but the point I've repeated many times is this: Nobody's tax burden should push their head underwater. No politician or plan should ever violate this cardinal rule.
    If you would be underwater with a 10% flat income tax on income above a standard deduction, you're inevitably going to be under water sooner or later anyway.

    The only way out of the mess we've created is to scale government back to its intended purpose and allow the private sector to work as it was intended to work. Why do you think costs have gone up 20 to 50% while wages have stayed more flat? That isn't any result of the free market. That is the result of government interference into areas it was never intended to be in this country and buying and selling votes, pure and simple.

    If we correct that and make sure all Americans have a stake in the process, I think you will see amazing opportunity and possibilities for you and your family that are almost invisible now. And your children will again face their future knowing that the American dream is alive, well, and out there for the taking.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #97
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    If you would be underwater with a 10% flat income tax on income above a standard deduction, you're inevitably going to be under water sooner or later anyway.

    The only way out of the mess we've created is to scale government back to its intended purpose and allow the private sector to work as it was intended to work. Why do you think costs have gone up 20 to 50% while wages have stayed more flat? That isn't any result of the free market. That is the result of government interference into areas it was never intended to be in this country and buying and selling votes, pure and simple.

    If we correct that and make sure all Americans have a stake in the process, I think you will see amazing opportunity and possibilities for you and your family that are almost invisible now. And your children will again face their future knowing that the American dream is alive, well, and out there for the taking.
    Again, my point was that 10% isn't going to pay for the Fedgov itself, let alone State and local taxes, FICA/SS/Medi-etc. You'd probably have to go to 20-30% to pay for that, which would push at least a third of US households under water.

    Would a flat 10% rate boost the economy? Sure. In the short term though, there would be immense budget shortfalls; we'd either run up a huge deficit or have to cut the budget drastically. Would it boost it enough in the long run? Nobody can really say, but you know about politicians and their predilection for spending!

    Look at the national sales tax plans if you don't believe me. IIRC those pushing the idea want it to be well over twenty percent. Figures I've heard range from 22 to 30 cents on the dollar, AND that does NOT include SS/Medi-etc, State, Local, Property, etc.

    I'm sorry, you can't tax everyone the same unless you cut the budget dramatically. Right now, our national budget is over 1/3 DEBT. THAT has to go before we go the way of Greece! THEN you'd need to cut it in half again before you have a balanced budget AND charge everyone the same rate without bankrupting 25-30% of American households.

    Last edited by Goshin; 05-16-10 at 12:15 PM.

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  8. #98
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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Again, my point was that 10% isn't going to pay for the Fedgov itself, let alone State and local taxes, FICA/SS/Medi-etc. You'd probably have to go to 20-30% to pay for that, which would push at least a third of US households under water.

    Would a flat 10% rate boost the economy? Sure. In the short term though, there would be immense budget shortfalls; we'd either run up a huge deficit or have to cut the budget drastically. Would it boost it enough in the long run? Nobody can really say, but you know about politicians and their predilection for spending!

    Look at the national sales tax plans if you don't believe me. IIRC those pushing the idea want it to be well over twenty percent. Figures I've heard range from 22 to 30 cents on the dollar, AND that does NOT include SS/Medi-etc, State, Local, Property, etc.

    I'm sorry, you can't tax everyone the same unless you cut the budget dramatically. Right now, our national budget is over 1/3 DEBT. THAT has to go before we go the way of Greece! THEN you'd need to cut it in half again before you have a balanced budget AND charge everyone the same rate without bankrupting 25-30% of American households.

    You're assuming that the Federal government has to have as much money as it gets. It doesn't.

    And you're assuming that the 10% would be assessed on the GDP that is produced now. It wouldn't.

    But all that can be debated on a more appropriate thread than this one.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    Now back on topic.

    If there was ever an argument for having some kind of test or other cognizant requirement to vote, these folks should clinch it:

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg0pDPK56Ys"]YouTube- Michael Savage- Stupidest Caller Ever- Welfare Money From Obama Stash, Illegal Aliens[/nomedia]



    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp4iI59BfpQ"]YouTube- Stupid Americans![/nomedia]
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #100
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    Cool Re: Do we need a requirement to Vote?

    I think a simple test of listing the candidates in one column down the left side of the ballott with the offices (scrambled) in a column down the right.

    The voter would then have to match their desired candidate to the office they are running for.

    If they get it wrong,... that part of their ballott simply doesn't count.

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