View Poll Results: Will doing “big things” cost Obama?

28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    15 53.57%
  • No

    4 14.29%
  • Not Sure

    5 17.86%
  • Disagree with the premise

    4 14.29%
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Thread: Will doing “big things” cost Obama?

  1. #21
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
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    10-15-13 @ 06:47 PM

    Re: Will doing “big things” cost Obama?

    OK, first of all, why don't you examine your source: A senator who is up for reelection in November and is currently involved in a primary against a challenger from the right. Not exactly an unbiased source of information about what is politically possible. Of course he's going to talk about how they're going to repeal the bill. That doesn't make the plan any more realistic.

    What part of what I said do you disagree with? Are you disputing that most of the health care bill is MANDATORY spending rather than discretionary spending? Or are you disputing that Congress can't simply deny funding for mandatory expenditures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch
    Do you really think that political shenanigans can only be pulled by the democrats?
    Not at all, I'm saying that in this particular case the political shenanigans to which you are referring simply will not work. Congress can't just decide they aren't going to fund mandatory spending (which is why it's called mandatory spending). They would have to repeal the bill authorizing the mandatory spending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch
    You really should learn to recognize when you are defeated.

    Yep, less than two months after the most sweeping health care reform in 45 years became the law of the land, obviously *I* need to recognize when I'm defeated.

    I'm merely pointing out the reality of how our government works: You cannot defund mandatory spending without repealing the legislation. If you find that reality irritating, don't blame me, blame the way our spending rules are set up. So hopefully I've established that (with the exception of a few small pieces of the legislation) it would need to be repealed rather than defunded. And hopefully it's clear to you that it won't be repealed after the 2010 election. But maybe you're holding out hope for 2012, the last election before the bill takes effect. So let's consider what would have to happen for the bill to be repealed after the 2012 election:

    1. Republicans would need to win the White House
    2. Republicans would need a majority in the House of Representatives
    3. Republicans would need 60 votes in the Senate (if they wanted to repeal the entire bill)
    4. Republicans would need to make a unified push to repeal the legislation

    Now let's think about these four requirements, one at a time.

    1. Only once in the past 100 years has a party been booted out of the White House after a single term (that honor goes to Jimmy Carter). So while it's not impossible for a Republican candidate to defeat Obama in 2012, I think it's fair to say that the odds are against it given historical patterns.
    2. This seems plausible to me, although by no means a certainty.
    3. This is simply not going to happen. The Republicans currently control 41 Senate seats. That means they would need a 19-seat swing in two election cycles. The Democrats will only be defending 40 seats over the next two election cycles. Do you honestly believe that the Republicans can snag nearly HALF of the seats that the Democrats are defending? Even under the best circumstances for the Republicans, this is a fantasy.
    4. Even if, implausibly, all of the first three things occurred...the Republicans would have to make a major push to repeal the legislation, and keep most or all of their members on board. This would involve at least as much work as it took the Democrats to pass the bill in the first place.

    So you can harbor your fantasies about the Republicans defunding the legislation (which they are legally not allowed to do) or repealing the legislation (which is almost politically impossible) if you want to. But now that health care reform has been signed into law, I'm not losing any sleep over the prospect of it not being implemented.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 05-12-10 at 05:38 PM.
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  2. #22
    repeter's Avatar
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    07-15-14 @ 10:06 AM

    Re: Will doing “big things” cost Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Perhaps, perhaps not. But sometimes doing "big things" is WORTH the political sacrifice that must be made.
    Exactly. Most politicians do the popular thing, dictated by the masses. But the point that politician was elected was to do what he though was right, and to think for himself, not worry about getting re-elected. If we could put in place limits on how many times any one person can run for an elected position, our government would benefit tremendously.

    I think Obama is hurting his political image by doing the right thing rather then the popular thing, but he will stand out in history for doing so. Lincoln, and FDR are both great examples of other presidents who've done the right thing.

    Lincoln, like Obama, suffered greatly from his actions, and he would have ben impeached as Johnson was if Booth hadn't shot him. Regardless of this, Lincoln is one of the greatest presidents we've ever had.

    FDR was a lucky president. He managed to do the right thing, and the popular thing at the same time, and because of that, he was elected to the office of president a total of 4 times.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
    -Gaius Julius Caesar
    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
    -Franklin Delano Roosevelt

  3. #23
    Educator ronpaulvoter's Avatar
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    07-18-16 @ 02:25 PM

    fyi Re: Will doing “big things” cost Obama?

    You bet!

    Massive bailouts.

    Unconstitutional socialist health care.

    Cap and trade proposals.

    Catastrophic multi-trillion dollar indebtedness.

    Does anybody understand the price for treason?

  4. #24

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    05-13-11 @ 07:01 PM
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    Re: Will doing “big things” cost Obama?

    I responded to the Poll questions with a 'YES', however on reflection I should have said 'NO'.
    Why the change of mind?
    Primarily because whatever this theoretical Marxist proposes and manages to ram through Congress will not cost him personally, anything.
    He has never IMO thought of himself as being a 2 term President (although he may well run for a second term), certainly the results of his laws will in no way impact on him personally.
    So NO it will not cost him.

  5. #25

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    10-21-16 @ 04:50 PM

    Re: Will doing “big things” cost Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    You really should learn to recognize when you are defeated.
    I see...much as you've recognized that all of your birther/truther nonsense was defeated and yet you (and a few others) persisted in your stance?

    Look, Republicans can continue to rant about the health care bill and the deficit and a few other issues that the Obama Administration has dared to tackle, but the way I see it if any of these things were as important to the Republicans as they claim them to be they would have taken on reforming the major issues long ago, i.e., Social Security, restructuring Medicare, enforced immigration standards, reeling in high risk taking on Wall Street, found better ways to curb the dangers of off-shore drilling and put in place new alternative energy standards for this nation instead of allowing Big Oil to run amock!

    I'm all for capitalism and the free enterprise system, but when the poor continue to get poorer and opportunities become so disporportionate few can afford to participate or some have to sacrafic between livelihood and life itself (health and well-being), it's no wonder this President still has a favorable approval rating despite what many may think of his policies.

    The verdict is still out on how legistlation under the Obama presidency will reshape America, but from where I stand I think he's made steps in the right direction. I may not agree with everything he has done, but it's certainly alot more than what his predecessor did in all of his eight-years in office.

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