Is slavery a matter of perspective?

[Slartibartfast]

I think this is less political and more philosophical. However, the answer has profound political implications I think.

Now there are obvious extremes that everyone would agree with. There are some very obvious forms of slavery, such as forced labor or sex. Also, there are obvious examples of the free man, such as the 1800s frontier farmer who is beholden to no-one.

What I am more curious about is people's thoughts about the more borderline cases. Examples could possibly include taxation for things a person does not like, oppressive social expectations (a woman belongs in the home!), forced life choices due to constraints, etc. Are these things an example of a type slavery or not? Why?

 

[Black Dog]

For some things yes. Working for someone else is a form of slavery. This is not a bad form of slavery, but some can't make a life for themselfs without the job. So this is a form of slavery.

So it is in some cases subjective, and based solely on opinion or perspective.

 

[lizzie]

It's hard to say for sure. There's slavery which is/was forced labor, based on the ability of those controlling slaves to physically and psychologically control slaves.

I don't consider societal pressure to be slavery, because nobody is actually forced or coerced to behave according to social expectations. The natural state of man seems to be a desire for freedom, but in any social construct, most people are conditioned to think they must conform.
If a woman marries a man who wants her to stay home and rear their children, is she a slave? She may think of herself as a slave, but she desires the security of his willingness to take care of her over the uncertainty of doing what she really desires and accepting the responsibility for her decisions, so if she is a slave, she is a willing one.

 

[reefedjib]

Slavery is owning people as property for the purposes of getting work out of them. Period.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Slavery is owning people as property for the purposes of getting work out of them. Period.

I agree. Misusing the term weakens it. I do not support hyperbolic misuse of terminology for the purpose of inflaming an emotional response to some political issue. Other terms that are frequently misused include hate speech, racism, and terrorism.

 

[Black Dog]

Slavery is owning people as property for the purposes of getting work out of them. Period.

That is just one form of slavery. Any state of bondage or subjugation is slavery.

For instance; some see forced military service as slavery. People can be slaves to drugs etc.

 

[Skateguy]

If you wake up to the sound of an alarm clock, rather than when you choose to wake up---You are a slave. face it.

 

[lizzie]

It's an interesting question to me.

Am I a slave to my job? Maybe in the way that it helps me pay my bills in order to sustain the lifestyle I desire. Am I really a slave to my job? No. I can go get a job elsewhere, or I can go into the wilderness and work my ass off to feed and shelter myself. It's all a trade-off.

 

[NoJingoLingo]

I think this is less political and more philosophical. However, the answer has profound political implications I think.

Now there are obvious extremes that everyone would agree with. There are some very obvious forms of slavery, such as forced labor or sex. Also, there are obvious examples of the free man, such as the 1800s frontier farmer who is beholden to no-one.

What I am more curious about is people's thoughts about the more borderline cases. Examples could possibly include taxation for things a person does not like, oppressive social expectations (a woman belongs in the home!), forced life choices due to constraints, etc. Are these things an example of a type slavery or not? Why?

Any form of imposing authority on another is oppression at the least. Slavery is when one benefits from the labor of another in inequity. Capitalism is slavery.

 

[reefedjib]

That is just one form of slavery. Any state of bondage or subjugation is slavery.

For instance; some see forced military service as slavery. People can be slaves to drugs etc.

In both cases they are using literary license to speak metaphorically about the relationship one has to the source of bondage. People can be slaves to drugs, but that does not make a drug user a slave. Ditto conscription. In neither case are you the property of another. In the case of conscription, it is your duty as a citizen.

 

[reefedjib]

Any form of imposing authority on another is oppression at the least. Slavery is when one benefits from the labor of another in inequity. Capitalism is slavery.

Bull****.



.

 

[Black Dog]

In both cases they are using literary license to speak metaphorically about the relationship one has to the source of bondage. People can be slaves to drugs, but that does not make a drug user a slave. Ditto conscription. In neither case are you the property of another. In the case of conscription, it is your duty as a citizen.

If you have no choice, how is it duty?

The dictionary disagree's...

1.the condition of a slave; bondage.
2.the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution.
3.a state of subjection like that of a slave: He was kept in slavery by drugs.
4.severe toil; drudgery.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

If you wake up to the sound of an alarm clock, rather than when you choose to wake up---You are a slave. face it.

So, individuals don't exercise choice about when/where/how often they work? I certainly do. If this job stops being satisfying, I'll leave. As it is now, a person has to wake up sometime, and I do work I enjoy and that has value to me.

 

[Black Dog]

So, individuals don't exercise choice about when/where/how often they work? I certainly do. If this job stops being satisfying, I'll leave. As it is now, a person has to wake up sometime, and I do work I enjoy and that has value to me.

I agree. In some cases though, people have very few options due to circumstance, location etc.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Slavery is owning people as property for the purposes of getting work out of them. Period.

Well, there are other things you can coerce out of people if you're allowed to own them, and I'd classify those as slavery as well. But I would agree with you that the essential criterion is that human beings are treated as property, and that calling anything else "slavery" is not only misuse of the term, but an abuse of the English language.

 

[Skateguy]

If someone can tell you when you can have lunch, rather than eating whenever you feel like it---you are a slave.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

If someone can tell you when you can have lunch, rather than eating whenever you feel like it---you are a slave.

You're fortunate to live in a time and a place where you can't tell the difference between honest labor and slavery. For the majority of human history, you would have learned the difference at the end of a whip.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Well, there are other things you can coerce out of people if you're allowed to own them, and I'd classify those as slavery as well. But I would agree with you that the essential criterion is that human beings are treated as property, and that calling anything else "slavery" is not only misuse of the term, but an abuse of the English language.

I pretty much agree with this statement. I think that ownership is the essential factor. However, I have seen many people swear up and down that paying taxes for things they do not like is slavery due to the fact that the government has legal authority and lots of guns.

I personally think that they are wrong and are misusing the word, but I am curious about their perspective on the issue. Do they legitimately believe their position or are they hyping the rhetoric for effect?

 

[VanceMack]

Slavery will NEVER be defined by people not suffering from it. There is simply no way to relate to it. I can empathize...even bet that it sucks really really bad...but all the analogies (draft, drug addiction, etc) fall short when another human being physical controls your very existence. I think in free countries the only people that have a real feel for what a life of slavery might be like are people who have been raped.

Perspective? Sure...of course it is.

 

[Gipper]

For instance; some see forced military service as slavery. People can be slaves to drugs etc.

Conscription is not slavery. Slavery ultimately boils down to a lack of choice at any level.

Indigenous West African people were kidnapped, shackled, and forced to work upon threat of death. They had no choice in the matter. Nobody is in the Armed Forces (draft is over with) because they were not given a choice. Warren Sapp wasn't a slave, neither was Prince, no matter what they said.

So no, slavery is not a "matter of perspective". It's a case of whether or not they had any control in the matter.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Indigenous West African people were kidnapped, shackled, and forced to work upon threat of death. They had no choice in the matter. Nobody is in the Armed Forces (draft is over with) because they were not given a choice. Warren Sapp wasn't a slave, neither was Prince, no matter what they said.

So, you are saying that you think the threat of death over the threat of other punishments, such as jail or being assaulted is an important factor?

Isn't the threat of jail, assault, and death all an example of coercion? It certainly looks that way to me. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if that coercion is a form of ownership, even if it is temporary or limited in scope.

 

[digsbe]

Slaves are human property. If you can be bought and sold and registered as someone's property then you are a slave. Paying taxes and having people in authority over you is not slavery. Now, I do think slavery is a matter of perspective as well. If someone sells themselves into a slave contract to pay off debts is he a "slave?" Is the definition of slavery dependent on if it is your will or another's will forcing you into it? Honestly I don't know, but I would say that slavery is a matter of perspective.

 

[Gipper]

If the threat of death is pertinent to you, don't sign the piece of paper.

Anyone who thinks that signing up for the military doesn't carry obvious chances, albeit slim, of dying in the line of fire should probably get removed from the national gene pool anyway.

 

[Black Dog]

Conscription is not slavery. Slavery ultimately boils down to a lack of choice at any level.

Where is the choice in "conscription?"

Indigenous West African people were kidnapped, shackled, and forced to work upon threat of death. They had no choice in the matter.

Talk to the men & women in Turkey or Israel.

Nobody is in the Armed Forces (draft is over with) because they were not given a choice.

Who said anything about our all volunteer army?

Warren Sapp wasn't a slave, neither was Prince, no matter what they said.

What?

So no, slavery is not a "matter of perspective". It's a case of whether or not they had any control in the matter.

Yes it is.

 

[Black Dog]

If the threat of death is pertinent to you, don't sign the piece of paper.

Anyone who thinks that signing up for the military doesn't carry obvious chances, albeit slim, of dying in the line of fire should probably get removed from the national gene pool anyway.

We are not talking about volunteering for service. We are talking about conscription or drafting of UNWILLING participants into any military org.