View Poll Results: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

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    14 38.89%
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Thread: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The problem with that response is than you get into a discussion of whether moral considerations are sufficient for this type of enslavement. This is why I never like "greater good" arguments.
    I think the broad consensus, that most would agree to, is that killing innocent people and/or taking their stuff is not good.
    Using that as a base line, I'm sure we can get somewhere.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No example then? Ok, how about in the world. Give me an example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If you have no choice, how is it duty?

    The dictionary disagree's...

    1.the condition of a slave; bondage.
    2.the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution.
    3.a state of subjection like that of a slave: He was kept in slavery by drugs.
    4.severe toil; drudgery.
    Talk to the men & women in Turkey or Israel in the military via a draft
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-10-10 at 03:21 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think the broad consensus, that most would agree to, is that killing innocent people and/or taking their stuff is not good.
    Using that as a base line, I'm sure we can get somewhere.
    I agree. But I think the reasoning most people use is different than what we are talking about in this thread, so it doesn't necessarily apply to this line of reasoning.

  4. #54
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I agree. But I think the reasoning most people use is different than what we are talking about in this thread, so it doesn't necessarily apply to this line of reasoning.
    So it is in other words subjective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #55
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Talk to the men & women in Turkey or Israel in the military via a draft
    I disagree with definitions 3 and 4 relating to what we are talking about which is the institution of slavery.

    The draft is not slavery, it is national duty.

  6. #56
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    To be honest it is not. You are not being forced to do anything. You are paying your taxes to support the government. After that it is not your money to control.
    That's just an argument over mechanics. Fact is, you're still being forced to support others.

  7. #57
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I disagree with definitions 3 and 4 relating to what we are talking about which is the institution of slavery.

    The draft is not slavery, it is national duty.
    So if the state owns you it is OK?

    Sorry "national duty" is no less slavery by it's definition.

    1.the condition of a slave; bondage.
    2.the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution.
    3.a state of subjection like that of a slave: He was kept in slavery by drugs.
    4.severe toil; drudgery.

    If you are given no choice under threat of force be it physical or imprisonment, it is slavery.

    You can disagree all you like. It makes it no less true.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-10-10 at 03:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #58
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    That's just an argument over mechanics. Fact is, you're still being forced to support others.
    It does not make it slavery as you are represented in government. It has nothing to do with mechanics, it has to do with fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #59
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    So it is in other words subjective.
    I don't think there is a good basis for objective morality since it depends entirely on perspective. So yeah.

    However, in dealing with the issue of coercion and slavery. I think if coercion (being the mechanism to force the actions of another) is slavery than it would mean that all forms of punishment are therefore slavery. This means that the term slavery becomes meaningless since me telling my two yearold daughter to get out of the dishwasher in a harsh manner (emotional coercion) would mean that I am enslaving her. I cannot agree with that because it is something necessary to do for her safety.

    So than if you flip the argument over and say that some forms of coercion are better (per my previous example, noone would blame me for wanting my daughter out of a potentially dangerous area) than others, we have to look at when and where those lines are.

    Overall, it just means that the simple definition that Hairy gave is not sufficient as far as I can tell.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 05-10-10 at 03:31 PM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't think there is a good basis for objective morality since it depends entirely on perspective. So yeah.

    However, in dealing with the issue of coercion and slavery. I think if coercion (being the mechanism to force the actions of another) is slavery than it would mean that all forms of punishment are therefore slavery. This means that the term slavery becomes meaningless since me telling my two yearold daughter to get out of the dishwasher in a harsh manner (emotional coercion) would mean that I am enslaving her. I cannot agree with that because it is something necessary to do for her safety.

    So than if you flip the argument over and say that some forms of coercion are better (per my previous example, noone would blame me for wanting my daughter out of a potentially dangerous area) than others, we have to look at when and where those lines are.

    Overall, it just means that the simple definition that Hairy gave is not sufficient as far as I can tell.
    There is a distinction though.

    Is the coercion for personal benefit like theft or is it for the benefit of the person being coerced.
    If it you force people to do things for your benefit, it is slavery.

    If you force your child not to climb into the dish washer, it is for her benefit.
    It is no longer slavery at that point.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 05-10-10 at 03:36 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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