View Poll Results: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

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  • Yes

    14 38.89%
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    19 52.78%
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Thread: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

  1. #131
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Here are more examples...

    Forced Labor - This form of slavery often results when individuals are lured by the promise of a good job but instead find themselves subjected to slaving conditions, working without payment and enduring physical abuse, often in harsh and hazardous conditions. Victims include domestic workers, construction workers and migrant workers.

    Wage Slavery - s most common in underdeveloped areas, where employers can afford to employ people at low wages, knowing they can't afford to risk their employment. Most child laborers can be considered to be wage slaves.

    Contract Slavery - These are generally poor and often illiterate people who have been tricked into signing contracts they do not understand and must be repaid through their labor.

    Sex Slavery - Women and children forced into prostitution are often lured by false offers of a good job and then beaten and forced to work in brothels. In other cases, victims pay tens of thousands of dollars to get to another country and are then forced into prostitution in pay off their own debts. In still others, women or children are kidnapped from their home countries. An estimated two million women and children are sold into sex slavery around the world every year.

    Debt Bondage - Bonded labor, is the most widely practiced form of slavery around the world. In Southeast Asia, where it is most prevalent, debt bondage claims an estimated 15 to 20 million victims. The staggering poverty there forces many parents to offer themselves or their own children as collateral against a loan. Though they are promised they will work only until their debt is paid off, the reality is that the debt becomes impossible to pay off. As a result, it is often inherited by the bonded laborerís children, perpetuating a vicious cycle that can claim several generations.


    All forms of slavery by definition and most require no ownership.

    Different Forms of Slavery
    if you wanna get technical, they are all indentured servitude more than slavery, a slave is someones property, they don't work for wages or anything, more akin to draught horses than people.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  2. #132
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Here are more examples...

    Forced Labor - This form of slavery often results when individuals are lured by the promise of a good job but instead find themselves subjected to slaving conditions, working without payment and enduring physical abuse, often in harsh and hazardous conditions. Victims include domestic workers, construction workers and migrant workers.

    Wage Slavery - s most common in underdeveloped areas, where employers can afford to employ people at low wages, knowing they can't afford to risk their employment. Most child laborers can be considered to be wage slaves.

    Contract Slavery - These are generally poor and often illiterate people who have been tricked into signing contracts they do not understand and must be repaid through their labor.

    Sex Slavery - Women and children forced into prostitution are often lured by false offers of a good job and then beaten and forced to work in brothels. In other cases, victims pay tens of thousands of dollars to get to another country and are then forced into prostitution in pay off their own debts. In still others, women or children are kidnapped from their home countries. An estimated two million women and children are sold into sex slavery around the world every year.

    Debt Bondage - Bonded labor, is the most widely practiced form of slavery around the world. In Southeast Asia, where it is most prevalent, debt bondage claims an estimated 15 to 20 million victims. The staggering poverty there forces many parents to offer themselves or their own children as collateral against a loan. Though they are promised they will work only until their debt is paid off, the reality is that the debt becomes impossible to pay off. As a result, it is often inherited by the bonded laborerís children, perpetuating a vicious cycle that can claim several generations.


    All forms of slavery by definition and most require no ownership.

    Different Forms of Slavery
    Exactly right - these are forms of indentured servitude and not slavery. The term is being misused.

  3. #133
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    if you wanna get technical, they are all indentured servitude more than slavery, a slave is someones property, they don't work for wages or anything, more akin to draught horses than people.
    They are considered a form of slavery. Ownership is a legal concept, you cannot own a slave legally in any of these conditions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #134
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Exactly right - these are forms of indentured servitude and not slavery. The term is being misused.
    Explained above.

    If this were true it is not possible to "own" an illegal slave.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  5. #135
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    They are considered a form of slavery. Ownership is a legal concept, you cannot own a slave legally in any of these conditions.
    thats pretty much my point, slavery is owning a person, from Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia through to modern times, slavery is ownership, a legal concept, they were considered property.
    In the examples you provided, all are examples of indentured servitude, like the serfs of feudal Europe, or the 'Blackbirding' carried out in pre-federation Australia.
    The only one that is close to slavery is forced labour, but as the people are not owned, they are not slaves, any more than prisoners made to do hard labour are.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  6. #136
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    thats pretty much my point, slavery is owning a person, from Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia through to modern times, slavery is ownership, a legal concept, they were considered property.
    In the examples you provided, all are examples of indentured servitude, like the serfs of feudal Europe, or the 'Blackbirding' carried out in pre-federation Australia.
    The only one that is close to slavery is forced labour, but as the people are not owned, they are not slaves, any more than prisoners made to do hard labour are.
    The term slavery like other words have changed over the years. Do I need to pull out a dictionary again, or are you going to say the dictionary is wrong as well?

    Again, the term is subjective and amounts to perspective. Simple as that.

    Slavery -

    1.the condition of a slave; bondage.
    2.the keeping of slaves as a practice or institution.
    3.a state of subjection like that of a slave: He was kept in slavery by drugs.
    4.severe toil; drudgery.

    Slave -

    1.a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; a bond servant.
    2.a person entirely under the domination of some influence or person: a slave to a drug.
    3.a drudge: a housekeeping slave.
    4.a slave ant.
    5.Photography. a subsidiary flash lamp actuated through its photoelectric cell when the principal flash lamp is discharged.
    6.Machinery. a mechanism under control of and repeating the actions of a similar mechanism.Compare master (def. 19).
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-11-10 at 01:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #137
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The term slavery like other words have changed over the years. Do I need to pull out a dictionary again, or are you going to say the dictionary is wrong as well?

    Again, the term is subjective and amounts to perspective. Simple as that.
    dictionaries? you've been spending too much time with Chuz


    but i'll agree that my perspective differs from yours.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  8. #138
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    dictionaries? you've been spending too much time with Chuz

    but i'll agree that my perspective differs from yours.
    hehehe no way.

    Reefedjib is under the impression if he disagrees with the dictionary, he must be right.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-11-10 at 01:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #139
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Positive and negative response to something is still a change in action, which inhibits freedom. Since the action is still changed, I don't think it is a good distinction to make.
    Yes but here we are going to the making someone not disturb your natural state.
    As long as he does not murder you, you would keep moving in the same general direction.

    That is where the social contract comes in, where we create a minimal set of rules for restraining not only people but government.
    It's basically supposed to be a NAP/MDP.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    óAdam Shepard

  10. #140
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    Re: Is slavery a matter of perspective?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes but here we are going to the making someone not disturb your natural state.
    As long as he does not murder you, you would keep moving in the same general direction.

    That is where the social contract comes in, where we create a minimal set of rules for restraining not only people but government.
    It's basically supposed to be a NAP/MDP.
    I still don't think that matters for this discussion. Freedom is about what you can and cannot do.

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