View Poll Results: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

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  • Yes, it was bad for America

    48 41.03%
  • No, it was good for America

    51 43.59%
  • A little bad and a little good. Overall it was neutral

    4 3.42%
  • A little bad and a little good. It changed a lot but not one way or the other.

    10 8.55%
  • Other...

    6 5.13%
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Thread: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

  1. #41
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Here's the thing. You have to look at the root of the feminist movement. It's initial goal or purpose was not to make gender roles ambiguous or provide for women entering more into the work force, it was primarily about the right to vote. There was a legitimate, unquestionable, wrong that was being faught against.

    There is not one of those present for males, which is why there is no great coilition formed. There was no original rallying point. Feminism as it is now and in recent decades is the left over of a movement that a legitimate wrong that needed righting, and after that was completed, did was all movements do....tries to maintain by finding a new issue to slam their already established membership against. I'm leery in part of any movement, even the Tea Party movement, because movements by their very nature never have a final point because those in power realize that to keep that power, to keep that influence, and to USE that influence, once you "succeed" once you need a new goal.

    Feminism would've likely never taken off to the extent it did if it was not for the Womans Suffrage movement. It was through that movement that the foundation was laid for everything after it. Without it the move forward would've been much more unsteady and much more slow going. A Large majority of women may not want to go into the work force. A large majority of women may not want ambigous gender roles. A large majority of women may not want men to stop being the providers. But without question a large majority of women wanted the right to vote, and that uniting ideal is what let the foundation be put in place.

    Its not that men don't want to dare to attain it. Its that there's not a big enough singular issue that can get the majority of males on board to create such a coilition as would be necessary for such a thing.
    I actually have a lot of sympathy for men. It's rough to be living in this era when all of the roles are in flux and what you should do varies from woman to woman. I don't envy y'all, at all. In fact, these days, i think women have considerably more freedom from societal expectations than men do.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The ring was only $149 but it was the one she wanted, without question. There was definitely that twinge of "This is wrong" when I purchased it, and whne I got it, because despite it being a very pretty ring and exactly what she wanted there's that standard that males are given from an early age of what they're supposed to do for an engagement ring and the whole "big rock" stereotype. But she loved it and wears it daily without the need to keep taking it off all the time, and ultimately that's what matters.
    It's stupid how a de beers marketing campaign has gotten both genders all twisted. I'll be perfectly happy with a gold/silver band, because what matters to me is WHO I marry, not HOW we get married.

  3. #43
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Penguins. Men also have breasts that can lactate, given the right combination of hormones.

    I think there is a societal expectation that women SHOULD feel immediately bonded to their offspring. I would say that a lot of us don't, and wonder what in the hell is wrong with us, but we don't usually talk about it, because it ends up with us being labeled as frigid bitches.

    I love my kids. But, I like them a lot more as teenagers than I did when they were babies. I'm not a baby person, NOT AT ALL. I did not enjoy their baby years. In fact, I'd say that my ex was better with the kids when they were babies/toddlers than he is now. He has no idea how to parent teens.
    I dont think there are ever 'absolutes' but one or two examples (and you will note...I said MOST animal species) doesnt negate the broader realities.

    Ive known lost of women who were more driven to succeed in business then their partners. Ive also known lots of nurturing males. But if I were to put an actual PERCENTAGE to the numbers? I'd guess less than 1% buck the 'norm'.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Ive known lost of women who were more driven to succeed in business then their partners. Ive also known lots of nurturing males. But if I were to put an actual PERCENTAGE to the numbers? I'd guess less than 1% buck the 'norm'.
    I'd put it as a lot higher than that, but then, I work in a male-dominated field to start with, so the women who succeed in it tend to not be delicate little flowers.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    That's simply ridiculous. We have breasts, that doesn't make us more emotionally capable of nurturing than men. But of course, espousing this perspective is a handy con that allows someone to be a kept woman who doesn't have to work for a living.
    It's not breasts that make us emotionally distinct, it's sexual and other hormones, which in turn contribute to development of breasts and other sexual characteristics, and emotional/psychological makeup.

    It's not a con for keeping women out of the workforce. Women are perfectly capable of entering the workforce any time they want. It still doesn't make them the same as men. It's sort of an equal but separate thing. I have equal rights to a man. I am not equal to a man because I am a woman. I enjoy being a woman and I don't feel cheated about what I am.
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    I voted yes because I think most of us men are dickheads.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Yes, feminism is a good thing, as in it is a political orientated force that pressures for political rights for women.

    All human beings need and should have political rights. This should be common knowledge, and something which is readily accepted rather than something that people ask for opinions on, and have lengthy discussions on whether it should be the case or not.

    Whether women are making good, balanced... choices with their new found freedom could be a lenghty discussion. And, what is the role of men in modern society is also a lengthy discussion.

    Some argue that things have got worse in western society and feminism is to blame. And the solution is to step back 200 years? No, it is not. The solution is to move forward in the trial an error way that humans have always moved forward in.

    Having said all that, one thing I am heartily sick and tired of hearing is the stream of complaints that some have about feminism. It is blamed for everything from the economy, to the emasculation of men(if such a thing really exists). Almost everytime the accusations are illogical and unfounded, but the the 'evidence' against the good of feminism still has to be churned again and again. Is it really a valid part of political discussion, or just dirty sexism? If I look through all the posts on this thread, will I see the usual old rubbish on the subject.
    Last edited by Mell; 05-11-10 at 10:23 AM.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    I'm having a completly different attitude to feminism, because for me feminism mens something else than it does in the US.

    Feminism in my homecountry (Norway) was good in the begining, but after a while it went from removing discrimination to improsing governmental discrimination (Affirmative action) against men to empower women. Even though boys does worse at school and only 40% of the students are men, there is still a lot of affirmative action to make it easier for girls to attend college, while pretty much none the other way.

    Also, I disliked the way they talk about wages. In Norway, people will regually talk about wages. "If women looked like men, then they would get 15% higher wages", which is completly bull**** because the reason women earn less is because they take low wage jobs, they work less, get "sick" more often and they take less risks. If this was true, why don't we see more firms only employing women, because they are cheaper but produce the same value. To even question if the wage gap is due to discrimination or not, is politically incorrect and very few ever question what was programmed into them in school. (school books in Norway are not neutral like in the US, they are quited biased to the left and state their opinions as facts) Because of this wage gap, feminists demand that the government should make sure (communist style) that men don't get a raise, while women does.

    If you had to deal with this for 20 years of your life, then you would also dislike feminists.
    Last edited by Camlon; 05-11-10 at 10:52 AM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    I think a lot of people draw conclusions from A) problem to B) cause - without really thinking through all possible causes to a problem - which could be numerous.

    Things I've read (by men and women - this isn't a one-way street of opinion) that are at fault of Equality movements (but, note, they all have alternative faults):

    Problem: Obesity on the rise

    Women's Lib Default)
    *
    Women working more, thus not cooking in-home meals as often.

    Alternative Faults)

    *The growing Fast Food industry - dining can be a quick and simple action, now - a few bucks for a burger - in and out in 5 minutes - the drive through (stemming from revolutions in the auto-industry)
    *The growing snack and soda industry: people want more sodas and want more snack foods whether they get a homecooked dinner or not, whether the mother is a stay at home mother or not. Overall - a lack of interest in eating healthy.
    *The growing economy and personal wealth. 50 years ago fast food was more unaffordable in comparison to one's overall income (it was a larger % to pay) Now it's a smaller % to pay in comparison to overall income. Likewise - there are hundreds of thousands of fast food chains within easy-reach.
    *Lack of exercise - "Sports Jocks" and "Cheerleader bimbos" (just two examples of how being sports-minded has taken a bad rap and thus discourages youths from participating).
    *Lack of exercise also stems from a growth in the technology fields: TV, video gaming units starting with atari, personal computers - and from the growth in the auto-industry which discourages walking and biking as a means of transportation. Also - these tech-means of entertainment aren't just for fun, they're a keen way to make a living (computer tech support, etc)

    Problem: Drop in education

    Women's Lib Default:)
    *More teachers becoming women = less strict teaching methods (not using red pens, overly concerned with child's psyche - these 'mushy girly' things).
    *More women working = more children in daycare = more childhood development problems

    Alternative Faults)
    *Economy boosts - making it more difficult to raise a family on one average income, two is more 'needed'
    *Educational standards climbing - the lessons taught to the average 2nd grader 50 years ago is now the lessons taught to Kindergartners, today. Children are learning to read, write and do math problems in Kindergarten. - overall education standards have risen accordingly. (Fault? Or product of expanding our horizons?)
    *Expanding our horizons as far as the standard thoughts behind psychology and how people work, how they should be treated - men fronted this field and made significant discoveries, not women, yet somehow it's penned onto women.

    These are just two categories, but you get the idea.

    So, when penning problems *to* Feminism - it's really showing that people are narrow minded in the sense that they are not willing/cannot think of more than one reason for certain things to happen - while at the same time failing to realize the benefits of feminism. Also, failing to overall understand *why* things were different before and after Women's Lib really came into play.

    Women's Lib didn't happen over night, it was a slow process.

    Example: People think "Womens' Lib" and think "1920" or "19th Amendment" - when steps towards overall women's lib started much earlier. The right to vote was almost the last issue tackled by women on a large scale. One good example is a women's right to patent an invention.

    It was Mary Kies in 1809 who was granted the first patent after a lengthy fight to earn the right to do so. Before that, women couldn't patent anything - it was expressly reserved for men-alone.

    Some important patents held by women - and most of these things were purely invented by women alone:

    Kevlar, windshield wipers, non-glare glass, various medicines like Imuran, Geobond, Petroleum refining process, Home diabetes test, electric food mixer, dishwasher, shelves in a fridge door, pop-lid trash can (with foot pedal), whiteout. (to name just a few things)

    Further note - some of these inventions were also by black women.

    Other things that women couldn't do: own property (land/home), work in a variety of jobs (physical labor, etc) or, if they did work these jobs, were limited to the amount of pay or amount of hours (thus - no overtime allowed, etc).

    When women started to be able to work corporate greed really played up to their needs - business started and focused on marketing *to* women, not *just* to men (Toyota did their big female-sales study in 1980 - long after Women's Lib came with it's fervor and became an accepted norm)

    I could go on . . . but you get the point.
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    The whole engagement ring ritual is sexist as all hell. It implies that women are materialistic AND it forces a man to symbolically bribe (with the ring) and beg (by getting on one knee) for his mates affection.

    I absolutely despise the ritual on all fronts.
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