View Poll Results: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

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  • Yes, it was bad for America

    48 41.03%
  • No, it was good for America

    51 43.59%
  • A little bad and a little good. Overall it was neutral

    4 3.42%
  • A little bad and a little good. It changed a lot but not one way or the other.

    10 8.55%
  • Other...

    6 5.13%
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Thread: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

  1. #11
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    It's a lot like the Civil Rights movement. Both of these things started out with denands for legal equality. Women got this, basically, with the right to vote. Then they both focused on changing societal views on their groups. Thus, it became less crazy to envision women leaving the kitchen and getting a job of their own, and so women entered the work force.

    But by then the movements had basically succeeded in acheiving their goals, yet didn't really want to disband. So they started coming up with new things to decide it was their job to fix. They started concentrating on equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. Sometimes they sought to be more than equal (affirmative action, etc.). So my answer is, it depends on what you mean by feminism. Up through the 70s, it did a lot of good. Most people who claim to be "feminists" nowadays, though, are just like the modern day "civil rights" activists, and aren't really worth listening to IMO.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It's a lot like the Civil Rights movement. Both of these things started out with denands for legal equality. Women got this, basically, with the right to vote. Then they both focused on changing societal views on their groups. Thus, it became less crazy to envision women leaving the kitchen and getting a job of their own, and so women entered the work force.

    But by then the movements had basically succeeded in acheiving their goals, yet didn't really want to disband. So they started coming up with new things to decide it was their job to fix. They started concentrating on equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. Sometimes they sought to be more than equal (affirmative action, etc.). So my answer is, it depends on what you mean by feminism. Up through the 70s, it did a lot of good. Most people who claim to be "feminists" nowadays, though, are just like the modern day "civil rights" activists, and aren't really worth listening to IMO.
    It's basically ended with, anytime a man is more represented, it's sexual discrimination but when women are more represented, it's empowerment.
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    We do indeed reap what we sow.
    I've had second thoughts about this. It is not like we sowed bad karma with the feminist movement and now are reaping the bad outcome. It is more like:

    Beware of unintended consequences.

    In a complex system, a change in one dimension will likely cause changes in other dimensions.

  4. #14
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    It's a lot like the Civil Rights movement. Both of these things started out with denands for legal equality. Women got this, basically, with the right to vote. Then they both focused on changing societal views on their groups. Thus, it became less crazy to envision women leaving the kitchen and getting a job of their own, and so women entered the work force.

    But by then the movements had basically succeeded in acheiving their goals, yet didn't really want to disband. So they started coming up with new things to decide it was their job to fix. They started concentrating on equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. Sometimes they sought to be more than equal (affirmative action, etc.). So my answer is, it depends on what you mean by feminism. Up through the 70s, it did a lot of good. Most people who claim to be "feminists" nowadays, though, are just like the modern day "civil rights" activists, and aren't really worth listening to IMO.
    Frankly I'd say Rosie the Riveter had more to do with the advancement of women's rights than 60's style feminism did. Self-support is self-empowerment.

    I remember the feminism of the 60's and 70's, I was there. It was shrill, hyperbolic, emotionally frantic, and filled with blind hate for all things traditional or male. Men were scared to offer the slightest courtesy to women under 40 for fear of getting their heads bitten off and being called "male chauvenist pigs!" (Hey lady, I just wondered if you could use a hand getting that big box outta the trunk, 'scuse the hell outta me for askin'!) I never figured out WTF burning a bra had to do with anything... you want your tatas to sag even worse as you get older??


    Modern feminism has morphed in recent years into two camps. One camp is the old-school man-hatin' feminazi's. The newer camp is much more sensible, and focuses chiefly on economic issues, and actually recognizes that it's okay if a woman wants to stay at home with her kids... something the traditional feminazi's still call slavery and sneer at, even if it is entirely voluntary.

    Old-school feminism is largely dead, thankfully.
    Last edited by Goshin; 05-09-10 at 06:15 PM.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Depends; right to vote/equal under the law feminism = good

    Feminism that gets pissed over woman, porn and the like piss me off to no end.
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Misvoted, i meant: No, it was good for America

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    What would people say is the good that came from the women's movement? I do not mean suffrage but the feminist movement.
    I think that feminism is responsible for the increase in female education levels overall, for women being able to do professional work (versus menial work), and for girls being able to have the same opportunities in school that boys do. I see all these things as positives.

    Let's be blunt here: lower class women always worked. It was middle and upper class women who were socially restricted by the idea that they were too delicate to soil their minds and spirits by working with men, voting, owning property, and having equal rights.

    And, it was middle and upper class women who were economically trapped into bad marriages, who lost their children if they threatened to leave the marriage, and who were treated like property.

    Sorry if women having equal rights has been hard on you. Deal.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-09-10 at 11:42 PM.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Good and bad.

    Good for women in that it encouraged higher education and awareness of important issues.

    Bad for families in that it made it a necessity in many cases for women to work in order to maintain a decent income for the family, thus necessitating putting kids in daycare and missing out on a critically important (imo) time of their childrens' lives. Bad for familiies in that it encourages women to be a little more self-focused and less focused on the well-being of the family unit, which is one of the cornerstones of most healthy societies.

    It's a double-edged sword which has had a positive impact on the quality of life for women on a personal level, but a negative one on families.
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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Good and bad.

    Good for women in that it encouraged higher education and awareness of important issues.

    Bad for families in that it made it a necessity in many cases for women to work in order to maintain a decent income for the family, thus necessitating putting kids in daycare and missing out on a critically important (imo) time of their childrens' lives. Bad for familiies in that it encourages women to be a little more self-focused and less focused on the well-being of the family unit, which is one of the cornerstones of most healthy societies.

    It's a double-edged sword which has had a positive impact on the quality of life for women on a personal level, but a negative one on families.
    Why is there this ridiculous assumption that it is somehow the woman's responsibility to stay at home and raise kids, and be primarily focused on raising kids? Do we have an equivalent expectation for men? Oh, yeah. No. Of course not.

    So, basically, we have a societal expectation, primarily in the middle and upper classes (because lower class women have ALWAYS WORKED, mostly outside the home), that women are caregivers to children and men.

    Nice. That's a system that works well for everyone involved. Except women.

    Men...if you want someone to stay home with the kids, and it's super important, have you ever considered DOING IT YOURSELVES?

    If people need to be more focused on raising kids, wouldn't that include men taking a bigger role? But of course, studies show that whether a woman works or not, the largest role in taking care of the kids and the house gets dumped on the woman. I wonder why men haven't stepped up and done this stuff that is ostensibly so damn important to them????

    For me, I will be grateful, forever, that my parents helped me go to college, get a degree, and a good job. When my ex-husband ended up being an abusive prick who went around sticking his dick in other women, instead of having to stay with him, suck it up, and take it, I was able to divorce him and take care of my kids on my own without us being in poverty.

    This is a bitch thread about men who just wanted to continue to abuse the previous status quo, and haven't started taking an equal share of responsibility for the well-being of the family...something that is so important that they want to dump it all on the woman in their lives.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 05-10-10 at 08:32 AM.

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    Re: Overall, was feminism bad for America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Why is there this ridiculous assumption that it is somehow the woman's responsibility to stay at home and raise kids, and be primarily focused on raising kids? Do we have an equivalent expectation for men? Oh, yeah. No. Of course not.
    Actually, we do. The equally ridiculous assumption held by many people, both male and female, is that its the man's duty to be the provider for the family. That the man should pay, ingrained at the earliest time from the man should be paying for the dates you go on and continuing outwards from that.

    Both are based on the traditional norms of yester year, where women traditionally were the ones staying at home and their "work" was tending the house and children while the father was the bread winner and provided, going to "work" to supply the finances required for said wife to tend the house and kids and to also spoil said wife.

    While I understand that women may feel the sting of the first traditional stereotype more and notice them more, trust me when I say the other view point is not vanished and gone from our society as well. This is both in how many women view a relationship situation, and how what society dictates and presents to you as you grow up as a male thus creating the mental belief that this is necessary and the many hangups guys have later in life when that does not become the case.

    You rail against "men" for not getting on board. The difference is while there was the whole "women's liberation" thing and has been going on for some time, there's not really been that for males. While women now grow up far more likely to understand and find it relatively socially acceptable not to be the 50's stereotyped woman, its not nearly the same for a man. The notion of the stay at home dad is ridiculed. The guy that takes home-ec instead of woodshop has his masculinity questioned. The guy that brings home less money than his wife is made to feel a lesser. As a young male grows up his worth is still often taught as being measured by the means that he can protect and provide for his.

    While there has been a shift to make it more socially acceptable for females to take the male roles the same has not been true for males. So no, I'm not that surprised when males are in general less apt to up and dismiss their steroetyped and traditionally ingrained roles than women because it has not been instilled in that sex that doing such is okay. While it is not a foreign concept for women now, it still very much for men. I speak of course in generalities, and even that is begining to decline some in this age but only because what happened 40 years ago for females has started in the past 10 or 20 for males in regards to traditional social expectations.

    The women coming into their 20's now are the daughters of the women that were living and breathing the movement. This is not the case with the men coming into their 20's now. Those were men still raised with that notion that they're supposed to be the provider, the protector, the bread winner, the MAN in a family. To do otherwise requires the stripping down of years upon years of possible family and societal expectations built up within their mind.

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