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Mosque near WTC moves forward

Regarding the "Cordoba House" mosque being built 2 blocks from ground zero in NYC...


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
Have you seen what JW's and Scientologists do to apostates?

I am not supporting Jehovas witnesses or Scientologists here. I am commenting on Mainstream Islam.

You know very well you have just offered a du toque argument that does not address the issue at all. If my dog bites you, my pointing out that a neighbor's dog also bites does not let me off the hook for your injury.
 
I am not supporting Jehovas witnesses or Scientologists here. I am commenting on Mainstream Islam.

You know very well you have just offered a du toque argument that does not address the issue at all. If my dog bites you, my pointing out that a neighbor's dog also bites does not let me off the hook for your injury.

The problem is you call it radical. It is perspective. Many sects of Christianity and other religions do the same in different ways. This does not make it radical.
 
I am not supporting Jehovas witnesses or Scientologists here. I am commenting on Mainstream Islam.

You know very well you have just offered a du toque argument that does not address the issue at all. If my dog bites you, my pointing out that a neighbor's dog also bites does not let me off the hook for your injury.

I'm suggesting that many religions have sanctions for apostasy. This is not at all uncommon, it's how the shepherds control the flock. If the ramifications for apostasy are not enforced by other believers, they are threatened in eternal terms (i.e., "You're going to burn in hell, sinner!!!"). Why do you hold Islam to a standard that you do not utilize for any other denomination or belief system?
 
The problem is you call it radical. It is perspective. Many sects of Christianity and other religions do the same in different ways. This does not make it radical.

In our society, people are punished for their actions, not their beliefs. Punishing people for their beliefs is certainly radical.
 
In our society, people are punished for their actions, not their beliefs. Punishing people for their beliefs is certainly radical.

Not in a religious context.
 
I'm suggesting that many religions have sanctions for apostasy. This is not at all uncommon, it's how the shepherds control the flock. If the ramifications for apostasy are not enforced by other believers, they are threatened in eternal terms (i.e., "You're going to burn in hell, sinner!!!"). Why do you hold Islam to a standard that you do not utilize for any other denomination or belief system?

I do not absolve ANY religion for killing apostates.

Having failed in your du toque argument, you are now zeroing in on the straw man.
 
I do not absolve ANY religion for killing apostates.

What would you then see as "radical" when all agree that apostasy should be punished? - Gardner

You did not specify "killing" anyone. Changing the goal posts?

Having failed in your du toque argument, you are now zeroing in on the straw man.

Not according to your question.
 
I do not absolve ANY religion for killing apostates.

Having failed in your du toque argument, you are now zeroing in on the straw man.

From your source:

Sheikh Muhammad al-Gazali, a renowned Egyptian religious scholar who died in March 1996, ignited a debate within Islamic circles on the question of apostasy when he testified, in July 1993, at the trial of 13 Islamic militants accused of killing the Egyptian writer Farag Foda. Foda was an outspoken critic of radical Islamists, who accused him of apostasy. Al-Ghazali ruled than an apostate should be given time to repent. But his support of ultimately carrying out a death penatly roused other scholars to argue for leniency and a reinterpretation of Islamic law on this issue.

"Those who blasphemed and back away from the ways of Allah and die as blasphemers, Allah shall not forgive them." (Nisa Ayah, 48)

The Koran is not explicit on this point, however. And many Muslim scholars argue that punishment for apostates and blasphemers is not be exacted on earth, but by God. They point to a verse in the Koran (Nisa Ayah, 48) that speaks only of Allah's retribution: "Those who blasphemed and back away from the ways of Allah and die as blasphemers, Allah shall not forgive them."

This is no different from Christianity...the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which many see as apostasizing from the faith.
 
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Assaulting or killing people involves action, not just belief.

But your point was that we don't punish beliefs. We do. Hate crimes legislation tacks on an additional sentence IN ADDITION TO THE SENTENCE FOR THE CRIME, which is tantamount to punishing beliefs.
 
It doesn't bother me one bit. If they wanted to build a mosque on the site of the WTC, that would be fine too. At least something is being done in this economy and there will be jobs created.
 
Hello, christianity.

With the exception that Canon law no longer dictates that anyone who leaves the slavery is to be killed; whereas, all five schools of Islamic fiqh dictate that apostasy is a capital offense. But other than that ya they're both pretty scary.
 
You're generalizating Islamism for Islam. Fail. Is there radicalized Islam? Yep. Is it the majority? Nope. Every movement has a lunatic fringe.

No all five schools of Islamic Fiqh requires death for apostasy, it is not the minority view it is the mainstream view.
 
I'm suggesting that many religions have sanctions for apostasy. This is not at all uncommon, it's how the shepherds control the flock. If the ramifications for apostasy are not enforced by other believers, they are threatened in eternal terms (i.e., "You're going to burn in hell, sinner!!!"). Why do you hold Islam to a standard that you do not utilize for any other denomination or belief system?

No the mainstream view within Islam is that apostasy is to be punished by death, that is the view held by most mainstream Islamic scholars. The same can not be said for Christianity or most other religions.
 
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No the mainstream view within Islam is that apostasy is to be punished by death, that is the view held by most mainstream Islamic scholars. The same can not be said for Christianity or most other religions.

It's a matter of timing. Christianity did in fact punish apostasy with death, and killed millions of people during the years between 300 and 1800 A.D.

I'm not going to judge Islam by a different standard with Christian history is replete with episodes of bloodthirstiness.
 
Do they kill them?

No, they ostracize them and financially ruin them. Of course, it isn't legal for them to kill people in the civilized West anymore.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-02-12/news/17583255_1_scientology-church-leaders-american-religion

Two ways the church deals with critics are lawsuits, its own undercover investigations and public denunciations of those attacking the church.

"Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way," Hubbard once advised his troops. "Start feeding lurid blood, sex crime, actual evidence on the attack to the press."

Given those instructions, it is not surprising how church leaders responded to Woodcraft's allegations.

In the late 1800s, Mormons killed Apostates, too.
 
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Killing people for leaving the faith is not radical? Are you ****ing kidding me?

The article he quoted AND the subject had nothing to do with killing anyone. He tried to change the goal posts later.

Please if you are going to jump in with nonsense. At least read the previous posts.
 
It's a matter of timing. Christianity did in fact punish apostasy with death, and killed millions of people during the years between 300 and 1800 A.D.

And Islam has been doing it between 500 A.D. and today.

I'm not going to judge Islam by a different standard with Christian history is replete with episodes of bloodthirstiness.

Um it's not history for Islam that's a pretty key difference. Christianity may have once been just as crazy as Islam but it isn't any longer today Islam takes the winning prize of bat**** craziest and most violent theist belief structure.
 
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