Mosque near WTC moves forward

EgoffTib said:

Why would I need to prove that they were taken out of context? They clearly are, since you have posted them with no context to explain them. :doh

Click to expand...

Excuse me those quotes are the context. They explain exactly what they intend. No double speak, they get directly to the point. Do not take Christains and Jews as your friends and wage holy war and kill infidels. Whats so hard to understand about that. Its direct and to the point......geeeezzz.

SgtRock said:

How many people have the westboro church members murdered in the name of god. And the crusades, please. Christianity has undergone a reformation since the crusades. Get up to date my friend. Yes the lone example of Tillers murder is terrible but thats one murder. There are many thousands of innocents murdered in the name of allah by muslims waging holy war for allah. Why is that so hard for you to wrap your brain around? Its a fact that this war against infidels is on going.

Click to expand...

So, because Christianity had a reformation we can forget about the atrocities Christians have committed in the name of God and focus solely on the atrocities that Muslims have committed. This logic actually makes sense to you? That's scary. :shock:

SgtRock said:

Excuse me those quotes are the context. They explain exactly what they intend. No double speak, they get directly to the point. Do not take Christains and Jews as your friends and wage holy war and kill infidels. Whats so hard to understand about that. Its direct and to the point......geeeezzz.

Click to expand...

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Do you know the meaning of context?

Oh please, Stgrock I think you need your head checked I have provide a lot of items that proves that Christians have taken lives of others in the name of their gods.

EgoffTib said:

So, because Christianity had a reformation we can forget about the atrocities Christians have committed in the name of God and focus solely on the atrocities that Muslims have committed. This logic actually makes sense to you? That's scary. :shock:

Click to expand...

Because the crusades happened hundreds of years ago. And only a few examples of Christains killing for thier god are relevant today. 99% of the murdering in the name of god these days is being done by muslims waging holy war around the globe. Tell me where Im wrong, please.

SgtRock said:

Because the crusades happened hundreds of years ago.

Click to expand...

We are talking about violence in the name of God. The Crusades fit the bill, regardless of when they were carried out.

And only a few examples of Christains killing for thier god are relevant today.

Click to expand...

There's your opinion masquerading as fact... Again...

99% of the murdering in the name of god these days is being done by muslims waging holy war around the globe. Tell me where Im wrong, please.

Click to expand...

Please support your figure with a source. Thanks in advance.

EgoffTib said:

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Do you know the meaning of context?

Click to expand...

Those quotes come directly from the Quran. And none of the context from which they came explains away thier meaning. They mean exactly what they say. They are just as relevant today as they were when written to those muslims who use them to wage thier hateful jihad against infidels.

SgtRock said:

trhose quotes come directly from the Quran. And none of the context from which they came explains away thier meaning. They mean exactly what they say.

Click to expand...

Okay, I guess this needs to be spelled out for you.

Here's a quote out of context: "Kill every black person you see."

Out of context, this individual looks like a violent racist. In reality, this person lives in a kingdom where only white people live. They are being attacked by a rival kingdom comprised solely of black people. Your perception and understanding of the situation is altered when the quote is put in context. Do you get it now?

EgoffTib said:

We are talking about violence in the name of God. The Crusades fit the bill, regardless of when they were carried out.


There's your opinion masquerading as fact... Again...


Please support your figure with a source. Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

I asked you to tell me where I am wrong.

SgtRock said:

I asked you to tell me where I am wrong.

Click to expand...

You sure did. Here's the problem: Your post is comprised of opinion and unsubstantiated claims. First, I can't prove an opinion wrong, as opinions are neither wrong nor right. Second, there is no need for me to refute unsubstantiated claims until you can substantiate them. You have been on this site long enough to know how this works.

EgoffTib said:

Okay, I guess this needs to be spelled out for you.

Here's a quote out of context: "Kill every black person you see."

Out of context, this individual looks like a violent racist. In reality, this person lives in a kingdom where only white people live. They are being attacked by a rival kingdom comprised solely of black people. Your perception and understanding of the situation is altered when the quote is put in context. Do you get it now?

Click to expand...

Dude I know what the meaning of context is. Please do not insult my intelligence. You show me where the quotes that I posted are out of context. You did say afterall "More than likely, they are taken completely out of context"

Show Me!

SgtRock said:

Dude I know what the meaning of context is. Please do not insult my intelligence. You show me where the quotes that I posted are out of context. You did say afterall "More than likely, they are taken completely out of context"

Show Me!

Click to expand...

Jesus Christ...

THEY ARE OUT OF CONTEXT BECAUSE YOU POSTED QUOTES WITH NO CONTEXT.

I cannot make this any simpler to understand.

EgoffTib said:

You sure did. Here's the problem: Your post is comprised of opinion and unsubstantiated claims. First, I can't prove an opinion wrong, as opinions are neither wrong nor right. Second, there is no need for me to refute unsubstantiated claims until you can substantiate them. You have been on this site long enough to know how this works.

Click to expand...

I posted quotes directly from the quran. How is that opinion, its written in the quran. My god you are dense.

do you want me to quote the entire quran for christ sake?

SgtRock said:

I posted quotes directly from the quran. How is that opinion, its written in the quran. My god you are dense.

Click to expand...

Follow the posts, you keep getting lost somewhere...

SgtRock said:

Because the crusades happened hundreds of years ago. And only a few examples of Christains killing for thier god are relevant today. 99% of the murdering in the name of god these days is being done by muslims waging holy war around the globe. Tell me where Im wrong, please.

Click to expand...

EgoffTib said:

We are talking about violence in the name of God. The Crusades fit the bill, regardless of when they were carried out.


There's your opinion masquerading as fact... Again...


Please support your figure with a source. Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

SgtRock said:

I asked you to tell me where I am wrong.

Click to expand...

EgoffTib said:

You sure did. Here's the problem: Your post is comprised of opinion and unsubstantiated claims. First, I can't prove an opinion wrong, as opinions are neither wrong nor right. Second, there is no need for me to refute unsubstantiated claims until you can substantiate them. You have been on this site long enough to know how this works.

Click to expand...

SgtRock said:

I posted quotes directly from the quran. How is that opinion, its written in the quran. My god you are dense.

Click to expand...

Where, in any of those posts, did you post quotes from the Koran? You do realize that we currently have two separate conversations going on, right? :doh

Ok I will post the context to the post I made directly from the quran. When I do I want you to explain how those quotes mean anything different when in context.

EgoffTib said:

Follow the posts, you keep getting lost somewhere...











Where, in any of those posts, did you post quotes from the Koran? You do realize that we currently have two separate conversations going on, right? :doh

Click to expand...

Man you are giving me a freakin major headache. Check post #219 where I posted quotes from the Quran.

here it is.

Here are just a few. Let me know if you need more. I only wish to help you to understand that Islam is evil.


Qur'an 5:51
"Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Qur'an 9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth, People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low."

Qur'an:47:4 "So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

There is no argument here.

NO ONE can argue that there is any justification for not building this Mosque. There is NO freedom from being offended by anyone or any group. And its totally irrelevant if the 9/11 attackers were Muslim or that our current enemies are mostly Muslim. It wouldnt matter if the guy who was building that mosque was the only peaceful Muslim in the entire world, he's got a right to worship how he pleases as long as its peaceful.

If you want to argue that you have a freedom to not be offended, how do you decide whos right to not be offended is greater? I'm sure these muslims who would attend and build this mosque would be offended about not being allowed to, what gives you or anyone else the right to say their freedoms and rights are less important than yours.

You may have your opinions, you may think its totally tasteless and offensive, but that provides no right to remove it from your view or limit the freedoms of others.

SgtRock said:

Man you are giving me a freakin major headache. Check post #219 where I posted quotes from the Quran.

here it is.

Here are just a few. Let me know if you need more. I only wish to help you to understand that Islam is evil.


Qur'an 5:51
"Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Qur'an 9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth, People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low."

Qur'an:47:4 "So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle, smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Click to expand...

That's a completely different string of posts. We had two conversations going and you are mixing them up. One conversation is A(you) and B(me). The other is C(you) and D(me). You are mixing D responses with B responses. :doh

EgoffTib, I am going out to have supper and a couple beers. When I get back I will post the quotes from the quran I posted IN CONTEXT so you can try to explain to me how they really don't mean what they say, ok.

It is saturday night in Texas afterall.

EgoffTib said:

That's a completely different string of posts. We had two conversations going and you are mixing them up. One conversation is A(you) and B(me). The other is C(you) and D(me). You are mixing D responses with B responses. :doh

Click to expand...

Please stop trying to confuse me Im not as smart as you. See ya later, I got a cold one with my name on it.

Blackdog said:

Our Constitution does not recognize acts committed by others no matter what size as a reason to persecute or other wise treat differently under the law.

Click to expand...

I haven't said otherwise, Blackdog. All I said was a mosque in that spot wasn't such a great idea. Also, that comparing Christian and Islamic terrorism as if there were some equivalency is like comparing firecrackers and nukes.

SgtRock said:

EgoffTib, I am going out to have supper and a couple beers. When I get back I will post the quotes from the quran I posted IN CONTEXT so you can try to explain to me how they really don't mean what they say, ok.

It is saturday night in Texas afterall.

Click to expand...

You can find plenty in the Bible that is violent and advocates for the killing of all kinds of people, maybe we should limit where they build churches.

Wiseone said:

You can find plenty in the Bible that is violent and advocates for the killing of all kinds of people, maybe we should limit where they build churches.

Click to expand...

Not in the New Testament, my friend.

Ockham said:

So weigh in -- is this all OK due to the stated intent, or is it NOT okay and this type of outreach building should be built somewhere not so close to the site of 9/11?

Click to expand...

This situation transcends the event, 9/11. It has to.


It is a fact, despite the inventions and illusions of the ignorant, that our current endeavors has far more to do with a civilization between Cairo and Islamabad than it does an old man in a cave. This doesn't mean that our enemy is Islam and all those who adhere to it, especially in that socially wrecked region called the Middle East. But it does mean that Westerners, especially Americans, and Muslims, especially those in America, absolutely must to come to agreed upon ground.

A mosque in such close proximity of the World Trade Center's ghost may be tacky to many. But this is also an opportunity to prove to millions of Muslims in the Middle East that our war is not against Islam, for which Muslim reformists have always agreed. We are up against such a high concentrated percentage of ignorance, religious fundementalism, and lack of education in this region that these kinds of displays matter. Especially to those Muslims who receive their global "intel" from outlets like Al-Jazeer and the House of Saud's idea of "proper" education.

Of course, other displays of friendship or good will have gone largely ignored by the masses in the region. Muslims were saved in Kuwait and in Bosnia by American troops and diplomacy. And would the Middle East have been in better hands under a Soviet roof rather than an American one throughout the Cold War? Tens of millions of oppressed and brutalized Muslims in the Caucusus would disagree. Maybe a mosque in this location will make a difference in stating that our enemy is not Islam (though it is the key ingredient to the region's problems) to the civilization that breeds our enemies.

Wiseone said:

You can find plenty in the Bible that is violent and advocates for the killing of all kinds of people, maybe we should limit where they build churches.

Click to expand...

The problem isn't what's written. It's the example and prescription set by the inspirations (creators). This continual argument that the similarity between holy books exonerates the religions is a celebration of ignorance. People should think deeper...or simply continue hanging on the words of politicians and media sluts for their "wisdom."