View Poll Results: Regarding the "Cordoba House" mosque being built 2 blocks from ground zero in NYC...

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Thread: Mosque near WTC moves forward

  1. #291
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    I explained this way too many times in 50 or so Tea Party threads. You cannot judge large groups by the actions of a relative few. This has been taught to all of us as children. There is no excuse to not know it now.

    Sgtrock, I don't give a ****. Flip through the OT. There are plenty of quotes that can call for some pretty terrible things if one takes them all literally and forgets the whole message of the book. The same exact thing applies to Islam. SOME Muslims do just that with the Quran. They cherry pick a few quotes and forget the main message of the Quran, don't be a dick. Some Christians do the exact same thing. Of course all you hear about are the crazy ones. They're the one's blowing themselves up!! The rest are just trying to carry out their lives like you and me. That's not news. That's why you don't see it. So go ahead Sgt. Flip through the OT. Look at every little rule and law they tell you, and then tell me that the Quran is so much worse.
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  2. #292
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Yeshu also said this...

    Matthew 5:17-19
    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

    Quite clearly, Yeshu is stipulating that his theology is dependent upon and irrevocably intertwined with Torah. Not partially, but in-toto. In short, one cannot discard Jewish theology and remain faithful to the Good Word.
    "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

    Jesus also said he came not to abolish the Law or the Prophets, that is, the Holy Scriptures, but to "fulfill them". Jesus did not tell Christians to "fulfill" these Scriptures down to the smallest letter. He said he came to fulfill the Holy Scriptures.

    "What did he mean by this? The Greek word for "fulfill" is plerosai. According to Greek scholars, the nuance and meaning of this word is difficult to express in English, and several possibilities have been offered. These are summarized by four options:

    1. Jesus came to accomplish or obey the Holy Scriptures,

    2. to bring out the full meaning of the Holy Scriptures,

    3. to bring those Scriptures to their intended completion,

    4. to emphasize that the Scriptures point to him as Messiah and are fulfilled in his salvation work.

    After reviewing several ways of looking at the word "fulfill," the Expositor’s Commentary on Matthew concluded by saying: "The best interpretation of these difficult verses says that Jesus fulfills the Law and the Prophets in that they point to him, and he is their fulfillment. The antithesis is not between ‘abolish’ and ‘keep’ but between ‘abolish’ and ‘fulfill’"


    A new covenant was made between God, and all people upon the death of Jesus. The prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus.

    I am not debating Torah vs the NT here. Just explaining the Christian perspective.

    "In short, Jesus was creating a spiritual law, which we may call the "law of Christ" (John 13:33-35) — and this becomes the norm for Christian living, not the old covenant law. This is demonstrated by the fact that one cannot find in the teaching in Matthew 5-6 any discussion of ceremonial laws such as the Sabbath and annual festival "holy time" regulations — a hallmark of Jewish religious observance based on old covenant commands."
    Last edited by Black Dog; 05-09-10 at 01:59 AM.
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  3. #293
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    continued......
    Surah 5 Verse 49And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors.
    Verse 50 Is it then the judgment of ignorance that they desire? And who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure?

    Verse 51 Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

    Verse 52But you will see those in whose hearts is a disease hastening towards them, saying: We fear lest a calamity should befall us; but it may be that Allah will bring the victory or a punish ment from Himself, so that they shall be regretting on account of what they hid in their souls
    Verse 53 And those who believe will say: Are these they who swore by Allah with the most forcible of their oaths that they were most surely with you? Their deeds shall go for nothing, so they shall become losers.
    Verse 54O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
    Verse 55 Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay to charity, and bow down in prayer.

    There are 65 more verses in Surah 5 of the Quran. Most of it goes on to heap criticism upon the people of the book Jews and Christians. Accusing them of blasphemy and damning them to hells eternal fire and such.

    Anyway the purpose of this leasson was to point out that Surah 5 Verse 51 means what it says in context. I posted two other verses which dealt with waging holy war and killing infidels. Im not going to post them again in context but I assure you they also mean what they say. No parsing of words. I recommend you, EffoTib obtain a copy of the Quran and read it a few times. You might just be enlightened, you might even come to the same conclusion as I have that Islam is Evil.

    Thankyou for comming, Class dismissed.
    Last edited by SgtRock; 05-09-10 at 02:01 AM.
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  4. #294
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoplite View Post
    I dont give a **** what Jesus or Muhammed would do, that isnt the issue. The issue is you are mentally stuck on an idea and nothing anyone says or does will dislodge it
    It would appear that you are confused about the issue. Perhaps it's because you pretend that there is none as you focus on simpler things like capitalism, which has been thought about to exhaustion over the past 200 hundred years. Perhaps thinking about something more tangible and less safe would help to ground you.
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-09-10 at 02:06 AM.

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  5. #295
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I explained this way too many times in 50 or so Tea Party threads. You cannot judge large groups by the actions of a relative few. This has been taught to all of us as children. There is no excuse to not know it now.

    Sgtrock, I don't give a ****. Flip through the OT. There are plenty of quotes that can call for some pretty terrible things if one takes them all literally and forgets the whole message of the book. The same exact thing applies to Islam. SOME Muslims do just that with the Quran. They cherry pick a few quotes and forget the main message of the Quran, don't be a dick. Some Christians do the exact same thing. Of course all you hear about are the crazy ones. They're the one's blowing themselves up!! The rest are just trying to carry out their lives like you and me. That's not news. That's why you don't see it. So go ahead Sgt. Flip through the OT. Look at every little rule and law they tell you, and then tell me that the Quran is so much worse.
    I am not judging muslims as a group or the many who choose to take the quran literally. I am judging Islam as a religion, political Islam, cultural Islam, and societal Islam.
    Last edited by SgtRock; 05-09-10 at 02:33 AM.
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  6. #296
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    I'm looking back over this with amazement, at how intense the opposition is to this simple statement: "I don't think building a mosque next door to Ground Zero is in good taste." Nothing said about using the force of law to deny them, just that I don't think its a good idea.

    Part of what's so amazing about it is that I don't really care all that much, build the darn thing if it's so important to you; I'll never see it anyway.

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  7. #297
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I'm looking back over this with amazement, at how intense the opposition is to this simple statement: "I don't think building a mosque next door to Ground Zero is in good taste." Nothing said about using the force of law to deny them, just that I don't think its a good idea.

    Part of what's so amazing about it is that I don't really care all that much, build the darn thing if it's so important to you; I'll never see it anyway.
    I agree, I also do not like the idea of building a mosque near ground zero. But then I don't think a mosque should be built anywhere. This is my opinion, The constitution protects the right to religious freedom even if its an evil religion like Islam.
    When America is strong the world is calm, When America is weak tyrants and terrorist slaughter the meek. ~ SgtRock

  8. #298
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Then kill yourself. kthnx
    Moderator's Warning:
    Mosque near WTC moves forwardAh... no. Cease the personal attacks.
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  9. #299
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Jesus also said he came not to abolish the Law or the Prophets, that is, the Holy Scriptures, but to "fulfill them". Jesus did not tell Christians to "fulfill" these Scriptures down to the smallest letter. He said he came to fulfill the Holy Scriptures.
    Yeshu is Jewish and supposedly a descendant of the House of David. From a Jewish perspective Yeshu is a rabbi (teacher), perhaps from the Essene branch of first century Judaism.

    In Matthew he is proclaiming to be part and parcel (and an extension) of Jewish theology. It is an exercise in linear logic... derivative y exists because of x.

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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    I am not judging muslims as a group or the many who choose to take the quran literally. I am judging Islam as a religion, political Islam, cultural Islam, and societal Islam.
    If you are judging a religion you are judging the character of its followers. And any kind of generalization is ridiculous and stupid. Just how many Muslims do you know personally? How can you call an entire religion evil when the majority of those who practice it, and therefore have the most right to define what it is, are peaceful individuals.

    Seriously you might as well be a racist, its the same principle. The only difference one could argue is that one has a choice which religion they follow but no choice in their race. Therefore one can be blamed for their religion but not their race. However thats also mistake as it completely ignored one's upbringing and the exposure to different things they get as a child. Someone raised as muslim or a christian will have a difficult time simply "choosing" to change their religion because someone people think its evil, or for a positive reason such as if they want to marry someone from another religion.

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