View Poll Results: Regarding the "Cordoba House" mosque being built 2 blocks from ground zero in NYC...

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Thread: Mosque near WTC moves forward

  1. #161
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Irrelevant. They have the freedom and do you as long as they do not infringe on someone else's rights. If that happens criminal prosecution takes over.

    It's the way our system worls.
    The original point is that Islam and Individual Liberty are antithetical and I don't see how proscribing to an anti-freedom ideology whilst in a free society makes the ideology any less antithetical to freedom.

  2. #162
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Actually it does for example the civil lawsuit against the United Klans of America, Donald v. United Klans of America in which the "agency theory" was set into precedent which holds that corporations are responsible for the deeds of employees acting according to the corporation's principles.
    The clansman were operating illegally and breaking multiple laws as a representative of the United Klan's of America. Notice the KKK is still around? It was one chapter, not the group as a whole.

    Muslims are not representing Islam as a whole.

    I suppose you hold all Christians responsible for abortion clinic murders as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #163
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    The original point is that Islam and Individual Liberty are antithetical and I don't see how proscribing to an anti-freedom ideology whilst in a free society makes the ideology any less antithetical to freedom.
    That is not the original point. It has yet to be shown as true anyway. To many Muslims in this country are legal citizens who have done nothing wrong for that to be the case. They show the exact opposite of what you are saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #164
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The clansman were operating illegally and breaking multiple laws as a representative of the United Klan's of America.
    So were Muslims acting as representatives of Islam.

    Notice the KKK is still around? It was one chapter, not the group as a whole.
    Actually it was the largest Klan organization in the country. So would you assert that we could hold Sunni Islam responsible for the actions carried out by adherents of Sunni Muslims just so long as we don't blame Islam itself as the culprit? Would that placate your delicate sensitivities in relation to this ideology which apparently you seem to feel should be beyond reproach just because its adherents say it comes from an imaginary man in the sky?

    Muslims are not representing Islam as a whole.
    So then Nazi's don't represent Nazism as a whole then either I suppose?

    I suppose you hold all Christians responsible for abortion clinic murders as well?
    I hold Christianity responsible for all of the violent acts carried out in its name using what it actually teaches as justifications for those acts.

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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Fine you're a bigot and tolerant of intolerance to boot. If that's your standard of bigotry then go ahead of label me a bigot of violent intolerant ideologies.
    That is ridicules. You are accusing all Muslims of the same intolerance you are displaying. A bit hypocritical wouldn't you say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Really? So Christian Identity isn't intolerant? Give me a ****ing break. That's like saying that Nazism isn't inherently intolerant.
    Again with Godwin, lol.

    Yea that whole "love thy neighbor" thing should be ignored. While we are at it the whole "treat others as you want to be treated" out the window.

    Damn intolerant Christians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #166
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    The situation in the world today borders on the fantastic.

    Never before in history has one civilization allowed large numbers of those who come from an alien, and immutably hostile situation, to settle deep within that first civilization’s borders.

    Never before have the members of one civilization failed to investigate, and even willfully refused to investigate, or to listen to those who warn about, the consequences for all non-Muslims of the belief-system of Islam.

    In history, the phenomenon of the Barbarians at the Gates is hardly new. Those barbarians lay siege; if they win, they enter in triumph. Should they lose, the advanced civilization survives. But never before have the gates been opened, to an entering force that has not even been identified or understood.

    Never before have the inhabitants of the by-now vulnerable city made efforts not to recognize, or realize, what they have done, and what they have undone. That demographic intrusion shows no signs of diminishing.

    The systematic building of mosques and madrasas, paid for by Saudi Arabia, everywhere in the Western world, helps to make the conduct of Muslim life easier. Western populations have been trained to make much of “celebrating diversity” and “promoting difference” and constructing, on a base of militant but unexamined pluralism, an edifice of legal rights and entitlements.

    These rights, these entitlements, this militant pluralism are exploited by Muslims who do not believe in pluralism. Nor do they accept the individual rights of conscience and free speech, the legal equality of men and women, and of religious and racial minorities, recognized, for example, in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    Their current claim to support pluralism is based on the need to protect, and increase the power of, the Muslim umma, or Community, within the West, until such time as that umma no longer needs to pretend to have any interest in Western pluralism and Western values.
    Fitzgerald: Islam for Infidels, Part One - Jihad Watch

    OBL 11/24/02

  7. #167
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That is not the original point. It has yet to be shown as true anyway. To many Muslims in this country are legal citizens who have done nothing wrong for that to be the case. They show the exact opposite of what you are saying.
    Islam does not allow for freedom of religion, or freedom of speech, to leave Islam is what is known as apostasy the punishment for which is death under Sharia law, to assert that Mohamed is not and never was a prophet is likewise a crime under Islamic Fiqh. Now that is quite clearly an ideology which is antithetical to individual liberty. Now you assert that just because adherents to this ideology live in a free society proves that it is not antithetical to individual liberty, and if that is the case then the same must be true for any other ideology; such as, Communism or Nazism, because we have plenty of Nazi's and Communists who are legal citizens of this country as well. Now perhaps you can now explain to me how that makes them any less antithetical to individual liberty.

  8. #168
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    So were Muslims acting as representatives of Islam.
    Yes, certain sects. So you are free to sue them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Actually it was the largest Klan organization in the country.
    Irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    So would you assert that we could hold Sunni Islam responsible for the actions carried out by adherents of Sunni Muslims just so long as we don't blame Islam itself as the culprit?
    They were acting under orders from Osama Bin Laden, so no. You again are free to sue them though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Would that placate your delicate sensitivities in relation to this ideology which apparently you seem to feel should be beyond reproach just because its adherents say it comes from an imaginary man in the sky?
    Now you are just being silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    So then Nazi's don't represent Nazism as a whole then either I suppose?
    Fallacy that does not again apply. We are not talking about Nazi's. Not all Nazi's were guilty of any crime based on the fact they were indeed a Nazi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    I hold Christianity responsible for all of the violent acts carried out in its name using what it actually teaches as justifications for those acts.
    Good for you! It is foolish and shows a pretty limited world view, but what the hell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #169
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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That is ridicules. You are accusing all Muslims of the same intolerance you are displaying. A bit hypocritical wouldn't you say?
    Um no actually I don't see how its hypocritical at all, not any more so then finding it a ridiculous to be labeled a bigot for hating Nazism and Communism.

    Again with Godwin, lol.
    So Islam (or any other religion) are not to be held up to the same standards of any other ideology? Why exactly? What elevates these ideologies to this place on the pedestal? Is it because they assert that it comes from an imaginary man in the sky?

    Yea that whole "love thy neighbor" thing should be ignored. While we are at it the whole "treat others as you want to be treated" out the window.

    Damn intolerant Christians.
    You don't even have a clue what Christian Identity is do you? Anyways, most negative ideologies have some positive aspects, for examples Communism promotes equality of the sexes and races and Nazism promotes environmental conservation.

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    Re: Mosque near WTC moves forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Islam does not allow for freedom of religion, or freedom of speech, to leave Islam is what is known as apostasy the punishment for which is death under Sharia law, to assert that Mohamed is not and never was a prophet is likewise a crime under Islamic Fiqh.
    We have a secular government and don't live under Shira law. So it does not even apply in any way.

    As soon as honor killings become legal in the US, you may have a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Now that is quite clearly an ideology which is antithetical to individual liberty. Now you assert that just because adherents to this ideology live in a free society proves that it is not antithetical to individual liberty, and if that is the case then the same must be true for any other ideology; such as, Communism or Nazism, because we have plenty of Nazi's and Communists who are legal citizens of this country as well. Now perhaps you can now explain to me how that makes them any less antithetical to individual liberty.
    Because it is against the law for them to infringe on the rights of anyone else. Other than that they have every right here in the US to live by their own code be it religion or secularism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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