View Poll Results: Is nationalism a good thing

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  • Yes

    52 57.14%
  • No

    24 26.37%
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Thread: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

  1. #51
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This is another well intended document out of Europe that meant little until America became the model to follow. Soon after the French Revolution began and this document was put to paper, they elected Napolean. He would go on to crown himself Emporer and terrorize most of Europe. So much for "The Rights of Man." It was placed on hold for decades until a more convenient time....long after Americans were capturing the essence of European ideals and the American Declaration of Independance.

    No matter the scenario and despite the world's fickle teenage girl attitude towards America, we have been the model to emulate on just about every level since 1776. Many Europeans know it, but refuse to admit it. Most Americans know it, but are scared to be accused of being "arrogant" and thinking that they are special.
    We are special. We are the melting pot of the world. Many countries can not help but to be racial by the mere fact of the ethnic origins, ie Japan, China, etcc.

  2. #52
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This isn't true at all. America is a culmination of cultures and has proven that nationalism can transcend tribe.
    But you, generally, expect them to conform to your social values, because those are the values of your tribe. Yes it's true that many immigrants can land in the U.S. and only associate with their own culture, but if they want to really integrate there is still a level of conformity. There are other countries in the world that embrace the notion multiculturalism, but that doesn't mean there isn't a base or dominant culture pushing its values.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Because of our historical cultural creation (which continues to create), our nationalism has a far more healthier face than say a nation like Germany or Iran or Russia.
    I wasn't really attempting to draw a comparison when I said what I said, but okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Our diversity makes it incredibly hard to hate or to look down upon other nations.
    This is really debatable, based on the political sphere of the U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    It's our history of immigration welcoming that has made us what we are. One should think about all those countries (even European) that spent far too much time ethnically cleansing their populations from time to time down through history and what the result of that has been for them.
    I'm sure there are lesser and greater degrees of divisive nationalism in the world, but nationalism still creates an "us vs. them" mentality based on tribal instincts. Statehood is just a macro concept of the tribe, albeit with more complex nuances.

  3. #53
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    We are special. We are the melting pot of the world. Many countries can not help but to be racial by the mere fact of the ethnic origins, ie Japan, China, etcc.
    Yeah, but many Americans are seemingly deathly afraid to admit it. While insisting that there's nothing special about America, they merely seek to place themselves on a pedestal above others.
    Last edited by MSgt; 05-08-10 at 10:20 PM.

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  4. #54
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    This is really debatable, based on the political sphere of the U.S.
    I meant to use "hate" in the extreme that we have seen it elsewhere. Negative feelings towards others will not see them linbed up in front of ovens or gas chambers. Non-conformists who insist on celebrating their Mexican roots will not be ethnically cleansed. Even mosques stand erect across our nation, which is very unlike what we see for Churches and synagogues across the Middle East.

    Considering the world's idea of "hate," we are quite tolerant. This is why our many differences at the tribal level is transcended into a healthier state of nationalism.

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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I meant to use "hate" in the extreme that we have seen it elsewhere. Negative feelings towards others will not see them linbed up in front of ovens or gas chambers. Non-conformists who insist on celebrating their Mexican roots will not be ethnically cleansed. Even mosques stand erect across our nation, which is very unlike what we see for Churches and synagogues across the Middle East.

    Considering the world's idea of "hate," we are quite tolerant. This is why our many differences at the tribal level is transcended into a healthier state of nationalism.
    Okay, I can agree with you there. Speaking relativistically, the U.S. is a place where differences are pretty tolerated. I do think (and this is the optimist in me) that our tribal natures can still be balanced with rational minds, so although the foundation of statehood is rooted in tribalism, there can still be a higher level of cooperation involved.

    Please note that I am talking about domestic issues only. Foreign policy is a whole other story.

  6. #56
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    It depends;

    Nationalism for love of ones country, that we should protect our own, etc theres nothing wrong with that

    Nationalism in the guise of blaming others for the nations problems, different set of laws for different groups of citizens yea not so much.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    It depends on your nation. Some nations you can be proud of. Others not so much. I don't think an abiding love for Nazi Germany or the USSR or Pakistan is a good thing.
    Wow. Am I awesome or what?

  8. #58
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    It depends on your nation. Some nations you can be proud of. Others not so much. I don't think an abiding love for Nazi Germany or the USSR or Pakistan is a good thing.
    Germany was Germany before it was Nazi Germany and it was still Germany after the Nazis were defeated. Should a man love his people less because of the actions of the government?

  9. #59
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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by stekim View Post
    It depends on your nation. Some nations you can be proud of. Others not so much. I don't think an abiding love for Nazi Germany or the USSR or Pakistan is a good thing.
    It depends...

    A person could have "an abiding love for" Pakistan but be opposed to the negative elements of it's current situation.

    And the same for Nazi Germany and the USSR. Although in those cases they wouldn't be Nazi Germany or the USSR without the negative elements, IMO.

    Not sure about Pakistan.
    Education.

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    Re: Is nationalism a good or a bad thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Germany was Germany before it was Nazi Germany and it was still Germany after the Nazis were defeated. Should a man love his people less because of the actions of the government?
    That was not the question. It was not about people-ism. It was NATIONALISM. Being "German" has nothing at all to do with your government at any given time. It simply means you were born in a place called Germany at the time you were born there. If said nation becomes Nazi Germany the nation has changed. The people? Many sure as hell did.
    Last edited by stekim; 05-10-10 at 07:23 PM.
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