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Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  • No

    Votes: 99 79.2%

  • Yes, explain

    Votes: 26 20.8%
  • Total voters
    125
Status
Not open for further replies.
Blackdog said:
Manned up and admitted it??? What the heck are you talking about? I never denied it. I have always put God before country. I put my family above it as well.

Why would I put all my faith in a country that thinks health care is a right? That it's OK for the poor to steal from the rich. A country that thinks it's OK to declare pre-emptive wars and to torture.

Dude you put your faith in the wrong thing.

As for being anti American, I will leave you with the words of Thomas Jefferson...

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.

I guess he was anti American as well?
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well i asked you that question at least 3 times and you ignored it and atleast once i called you on it for ignoring it so I dont know you tell me why i thought that.

also nobody told you to put all your faith in the country, nor do I or did I say I did, i seriously wonder where you get this stuff from?

as for jefferson, go back and read it slower, "certain occasions" not all and any that do not line up with your god HUUUUUUUUUGE diffference, nice try though, but a fail ;)
 
Blackdog said:
Oh I see. So if peoples morals are based in nothing it's OK. If peoples morals are based on religion, they should not be allowed to vote etc. Pot, met kettle.

Hows that for spin?
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Who said we should vote on morals? We should make laws based on what is best for the people, and what will provide equal rights for everyone.

I agree, it's not like a man shall not lie with a man as he does a woman is any kind of biblical evidence. Along with all the other verses we posted.
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That passage has no bearing on modern Christians.

And yet this beautiful creation was called an abomination to the lord.
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But wasn't ever called an abomination or sin by God.

Many people put other things before God. I will not condemn you for it. I will say that is not the correct path according to scripture though.
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Who says I am putting anything before God? I am just allowing people to live, and have their God given free will.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
I don't have to tell you what you think and feel. Everything I've said about you is based in your own words. If your words are not consistent with your thoughts and feelings, there's nothing I can do about it.
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no one said you HAVE to but the fact is you CANT lol
its your wrong opinions you have of my words that get you introuble because no matter what you say my morals are not involved nor will they ever be on this subject, deny that fact if you wish but tomorrow it will still be fact lol
 
Centrist77 said:
so let me get this straight the sentence above applies to EVERYTHING and not gay marriage even though thats the topic at hand and the thread we are talking about? got it, that makes logical sense
LMAO hahahahaha
again its just astonishing your lack of logic in your arguments sometimes, WOW, just WOW
does the word context mean anything to you? for a proclaimed "bible" studier and interrupter you sure are poor at figuring out the meaning of words and a sentence and the thread title does this for you! ;) man, cant see how you could ever get the bible wrong:2rofll:
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OK now you are trying to deny your own words and going into maniac mode again.

You don't debate. My spelling and grammar is not great, yours is worse. Sometimes it is hard to make out anything you typed. Then on top of that because you have no real argument at times you put in a healthy smattering of...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah or LMAO or WOW or anything that is irrelevant to any kind of debate.

I think you would be OK to debate if you stayed calm and did not act like an out of control child.

Ok back on topic.

Why would you deny your own statement?
 
Your Star said:
I have morals that come from my religion, like kindness, acceptance, peace, tolerance. But I don't limit my morals to my religion. We live in a world where not everyone is Christian, and I'm not about to use my religion in my politics to force someone to have to follow a part of my religion that they may disagree with.
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What if they disagree with kindness, acceptance, peace, and tolerance?

Your Star said:
Who said we should vote on morals? We should make laws based on what is best for the people, and what will provide equal rights for everyone.
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Those are, themselves, moral values. Additionally, isn't moral order what's best for the people? An immoral people cannot prosper. So shouldn't we pass laws that uphold the moral values that are best for the people?
 
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Blackdog said:
OK now you are trying to deny your own words and going into maniac mode again.

You don't debate. My spelling and grammar is not great, yours is worse. Sometimes it is hard to make out anything you typed. Then on top of that because you have no real argument at times you put in a healthy smattering of...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah or LMAO or WOW or anything that is irrelevant to any kind of debate.

I think you would be OK to debate if you stayed calm and did not act like an out of control child.

Ok back on topic.

Why would you deny your own statement?
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dude when i said that it was CLEALRY referring to GAY MARRIAGE you know what the last 143 pages were about????
to not see that is just silly
im not denying my own words, my words referred to gay marriage not EVERYTHING lmao

I laugh like that because to have the misinterpretation of what was said is beyond funny, its actually obnoxiously absurd it litterally made me laugh out loud because of how unfathomable it was for you to think that

still shaking my head wow, i have a clear argument its called the truth and something called CONTEXT lol
 
Your Star said:
Who said we should vote on morals? We should make laws based on what is best for the people, and what will provide equal rights for everyone.
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OK commrade.

Your Star said:
That passage has no bearing on modern Christians.
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It is a good reference for what God does and does not like.

Your Star said:
But wasn't ever called an abomination or sin by God.
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Are you certain about that? You mite want to look it up.

Direct from God: 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Your Star said:
Who says I am putting anything before God? I am just allowing people to live, and have their God given free will.
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You do. Don't back track now, you are on a roll.
 
Good night all, its late here and I got to get up early, fun talks though, very entertaining again!
another day


GOOD REASON COUNTER: 0
 
Centrist77 said:
dude when i said that it was CLEALRY referring to GAY MARRIAGE you know what the last 143 pages were about????
to not see that is just silly
im not denying my own words, my words referred to gay marriage not EVERYTHING lmao
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You did not say that even in context of the full paragraph. I mean I don't care what you said I was just pointing out you did say that.

Centrist77 said:
I laugh like that because to have the misinterpretation of what was said is beyond funny, its actually obnoxiously absurd it litterally made me laugh out loud because of how unfathomable it was for you to think that
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That's cool but it was not that funny and no one wants to read HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA across the page etc.

Why people have trouble taking you seriously at times.

Centrist77 said:
still shaking my head wow, i have a clear argument its called the truth and something called CONTEXT lol
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Read the whole paragraph and you can laugh all you want. Even I made mention of it initially.
 
Centrist77 said:
Good night all, its late here and I got to get up early, fun talks though, very entertaining again!
another day


GOOD REASON COUNTER: 0
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Good Reason : 57% of US against gay marriage. State Constitutions amended in 23 state and rising.

Good night and God bless! Thanks for the tins links.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
What if they disagree with kindness, acceptance, peace, and tolerance?
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Interesting question. Though unlike this issue I doubt it would be mainly conservative Christians against laws that would disrupt those things. And I certainly wouldn't use a religious argument against those laws, because I wouldn't want to bring my religion in my politics.
 
Blackdog said:
OK commrade.
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Nice communist reference, I don't see how that has anything to do with this though? What about what I said was communist?


It is a good reference for what God does and does not like.
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Not necessarily, more about what Abraham doesn't like.

Are you certain about that? You mite want to look it up.

Direct from God: 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
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Abomination isn't a sin. It means unclean, and Abraham wrote all those laws. So, it's not really God.

You do. Don't back track now, you are on a roll.
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No, I don't, I am just allowing people to have free will. Just like God intended. It's not like I'm doing anything that is against my personal belief system, I don't believe God has any problem with me not involving religion, with my politics.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Alright, let's all simmer down before I have to crack some heads.
 
Blackdog said:
I see your point, but it seems you are putting faith in man, rather than God's law. No argument, just an observation and opinion.

Putting faith in men is fine when it is not in direct violation with God's law. Science is not at odds with scripture, but this does not mean science takes precedent over biblical moral precedent for me.
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In bold. This is where we disagree, philosophically. To me, there is no conflict, as I see science as God's gift and part of biblical code.
 
Centrist77 said:
Im sure this issue has been debated over and over again but since im doing research and studying Id love more opinions cause its fun.

Also let me add not only am I looking for your opinion im looking for your reasoning if your answer is yes.

I have discussed gay marriage many many times and have yet to hear ONE sound, reasonable, logical, non-bais, non-selfish, non-arrogant, hypercritical, non anti-american reason to "Stop" gay marriage Almost every reason I have ever heard was also used about womens rights, equal rights interracial marriage etc. they were dumb and didnt apply then and they certainly havent changed now

now mind you, pay attention to my verbiage, I said reason to STOP it.

That means in America I think its fine for anybody to:
THINK its wrong, gross or offensive etc
TEACH its wrong gross or offensive etc
PREACH its wrong gross or offensive etc
BELIEVE its wrong gross or offensive etc
FEEL its wrong gross or offensive etc
etc

but once you try to stop it I think you wrong on so many levels.
I cant imagine how AMERICANS think they have the right to tell two CONSENTING ADULTS who and who they cant marry lmao
Does it get anymore pompous and arrogant and selfish and hypercritical and anti american than that. How anybody thinks they have the right to tell a person they cant marry another one is beyond me.

I myself im not gay so i REALLY feel its non of my business but has an american I have to call BS on the other so called americans that do think its there buisness some how.

Anyway maybe this time will be different, it actually be VERY interesting if it is different. So does anybody have ONE sound, reasonable, logical, non-bais, non-selfish, non-arrogant, non-hypercritical, non anti-american reason to "Stop" gay marriage. Who thinks they have a sound reason on why they should get to determine who two consenting adults can and can not marry.
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American society sets it's own standards and laws. At present, American society has overwhelming stated, time and time again, that it doesn't and won't recognize gay "marriage". Simply put, there need not be any other reason than that.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
You are assuming the liberal argument that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want, should be free to choose whatever they want. Not everyone shares that belief and not everyone wants that belief to be reflected in the law.
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The right to swing your fist ends at my nose. As long as you don't infringe on my rights, you can do as you please. That is freedom.
 
Blackdog said:
Oh I see. So if peoples morals are based in nothing it's OK. If peoples morals are based on religion, they should not be allowed to vote etc. Pot, meet kettle.

Hows that for spin?
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Don't you think it's unfair to say that people's morals are based on nothing?

Blackdog said:
I agree, it's not like a man shall not lie with a man as he does a woman is any kind of biblical evidence. Along with all the other verses we posted.
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Yeah, those versus say that it's bad. They never say why it is bad. It's just an arbitrary decree. You could say it's a moral based on nothing.

Blackdog said:
And yet this beautiful creation was called an abomination to the lord.
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As was eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabrics. Mixed fabrics?!?!? Totally arbitrary and sounds like it was contrived by man.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Don't you think it's unfair to say that people's morals are based on nothing?
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No it was just an example. Would you have felt better if I said the rising of the sun? :mrgreen:

independent_thinker2002 said:
Yeah, those versus say that it's bad. They never say why it is bad. It's just an arbitrary decree. You could say it's a moral based on nothing.
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Here we go with the nothing thing. It was an example. :doh

So tell me what are your morals based on?

independent_thinker2002 said:
As was eating shellfish and wearing mixed fabrics. Mixed fabrics?!?!? Totally arbitrary and sounds like it was contrived by man.
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Arbitrary to you was life saving back then. You need to understand the times.
 
Blackdog said:
No it was just an example. Would you have felt better if I said the rising of the sun? :mrgreen:
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No, that's equally absurd.

Blackdog said:
Here we go with the nothing thing. It was an example. :doh
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A poor one at that. It is a demeaning example.

Blackdog said:
So tell me what are your morals based on?
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Logic. You can make a logical argument as to how something will benefit or harm society or individuals.

Blackdog said:
Arbitrary to you was life saving back then. You need to understand the times.
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Couldn't God just tell them how to properly prepare shellfish or cure ham?

People died from mixed fabrics?
 
Your Star said:
Nice communist reference, I don't see how that has anything to do with this though? What about what I said was communist?
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Who said we should vote on morals? We should make laws based on what is best for the people, and what will provide equal rights for everyone.

Your Star said:
Not necessarily, more about what Abraham doesn't like.
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God interacted directly with Abraham, you know the whole sacrificing Isaac thing. Hence he is called the father of the Abrahamic religions.

So yes directly from God according to the Bible.

Your Star said:
Abomination isn't a sin. It means unclean, and Abraham wrote all those laws. So, it's not really God.
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You don't know your history or Bible then. Yes God gave them the laws. Unclean means very bad and is associated with sin.

Your Star said:
No, I don't, I am just allowing people to have free will. Just like God intended.
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Do you believe Jesus is the son of God?
Do you believe he rose from the dead to save us from our sins?
Do you accept Jesus as your savior and love him above all else?

If you cannot answer yes to all those questions, you are not a Christian.

Your Star said:
It's not like I'm doing anything that is against my personal belief system, I don't believe God has any problem with me not involving religion, with my politics.
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He doesn’t. and Jesus said as much “Render unto God what is Gods” etc. The problem arises when you do not take a stand against sin. You choose to let it slide or blow it off. That is not the way.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
No, that's equally absurd.
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Why? People get their morals from all kinds of different places. Religion is just one of them. And in the end this is just arbitrary silliness on your part as it literally has nothing at all to do with the post or my point.

independent_thinker2002 said:
A poor one at that. It is a demeaning example.
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You have got to be kidding. :roll:

independent_thinker2002 said:
Logic. You can make a logical argument as to how something will benefit or harm society or individuals.
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Logic is not the final arbitrator of morals. It is one of many places they come from. Logic is also not always correct.

independent_thinker2002 said:
Couldn't God just tell them how to properly prepare shellfish or cure ham?
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I don't know. You seem to think you know the mind of a omnipotent being, you tell me?

independent_thinker2002 said:
People died from mixed fabrics?
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No, and don't play dumb. That was entirely different reasoning. :roll:
 
Blackdog said:
Why? People get their morals from all kinds of different places. Religion is just one of them. And in the end this is just arbitrary silliness on your part as it literally has nothing at all to do with the post or my point.
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You claimed that her morals came from nothing. That's all on you. I'm glad that you recognize that people can get morals from places besides religion.

Blackdog said:
You have got to be kidding. :roll:
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Saying her morals come from nothing is demeaning. No joke.

Blackdog said:
Logic is not the final arbitrator of morals. It is one of many places they come from. Logic is also not always correct.
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If it incorrect, it isn't logic. ;)

Blackdog said:
I don't know. You seem to think you know the mind of a omnipotent being, you tell me?
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I suspect those were decrees made by man.

Blackdog said:
No, and don't play dumb. That was entirely different reasoning. :roll:
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What was the reasoning for mixed fabrics being an abomination and punishable by death.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
You claimed that her morals came from nothing. That's all on you. I'm glad that you recognize that people can get morals from places besides religion.
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And again has nothing to do with my point.

independent_thinker2002 said:
Saying her morals come from nothing is demeaning. No joke.
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And that is where your problem lies. Please point out where I said this?

independent_thinker2002 said:
If it incorrect, it isn't logic. ;)
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An incorrect conclusion can be drawn from logic, but you knew this.

independent_thinker2002 said:
I suspect those were decrees made by man.
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OK

independent_thinker2002 said:
What was the reasoning for mixed fabrics being an abomination and punishable by death.
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No one can say for certain but it is thought that it was to keep the tribes of Israel separate from the pagan neighbors who dressed in garish multi fabric clothing. For the Israelites modesty was a big deal.

For the Jewish people they have a name for it, I don't remember what it was. It means something literally like "we have no idea, but it is the law." It does have a long explanation, but you can look up the Jewish interpretation yourself.
 
Blackdog said:
Good Reason : 57% of US against gay marriage. State Constitutions amended in 23 state and rising.

Good night and God bless! Thanks for the tins links.
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(I know that all of you against gay marriage hate this reference, but too bad) Again, much of the country was against interracial marriages as well. Not all, but many believed it was a sin against God to marry outside your race (this was true, despite the whole white supremacy thing, even today some feel this way, especially in the South). They had state constitutional amendments to limit marriage to one man and one woman of the same race. The arguments were very much the same. So was the SCOTUS right in their ruling that interracial marriage is a right, even if it went against a what the majority believed?

And I know this will bring the whole race is not the same as sexuality argument, but I contend you are wrong. If you put any other trait in their, including religion, the argument would still be sound. And religion is definitely more of a choice than sexuality. Even if you put some other feature up there with a caveat that said that artificial change is acceptable, the same outcome would be achieved. If the law said that blondes could only marry other blondes, but having your hair dyed blonde is acceptable to achieve this marriage, then would the law really be discriminating? Is it right?
 
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