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Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  • No

    Votes: 99 79.2%
  • Yes, explain

    Votes: 26 20.8%

  • Total voters
    125
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Yes, you can, if it supports a secular purpose.

Like murder. Using a religious rational to justify an objection to murder is valid if reducing murder serves a secular purpose.

The same is true of theft. The same is true of adultery. etc, etc, ad nausium.

Religion isn't justifiable excuse. Everything is based on the rights of the individual. Not religious arguments which can change between gods and people.

Adultery, BTW, is not illegal.
 
Votes which come from the individual may be religious in nature. Votes which come from government must abide by the restrictions placed upon government. The majority of people may not like gay marriage; but so long as the Marriage License exists there is not anything they can justly do about it. Any action which prohibits same sex couples from obtaining a marriage license is one of bigotry and oppression. And that's what we're not supposed to be able. Communal law may not rightfully override the rights and liberties of the individual. It's that simple. Thus as long as there is a Marriage License, there is nothing one can legitimately and rightfully do to forbid same sex couples from obtaining a Marriage License. That's all there is to it.

And yet gay marriage is not only illegal in most states. It is not recognized by the Federal government at all. Go figure.

So illegal in some states that they have amended the states constitution.

Where does that leave you?
 
Based on the fact in our society religion or not it is one man our woman. You can scream that it is purely based on religion, but it's not. That makes you wrong.

And yes I can do anything I like via the ballot box. In this country I have that right.

No, this is a Republic, not a direct democracy. Thus you cannot infringe upon the rights of others, no matter how much you vote.

Thats a hell of an argument. :roll:

I am not enforcing anything. I am submitting my thoughts and wants for the society in which I live. You don't like it? Move?

Wrong. You don't like the never ending pursuit of liberty, you can get out or take a bullet. The choice is yours. But if you're going to stand in the way of freedom and liberty you should prepare for the possibility of some patriot taking you out. Treason and tyranny doesn't sit well for most in this country.
 
Religion isn't justifiable excuse. Everything is based on the rights of the individual. Not religious arguments which can change between gods and people.

If everything was based on the rights of the individual, drugs would be legal without a prescription. So that's bunk.

Adultery, BTW, is not illegal.

And yet it is looked down upon by most.
 
And yet gay marriage is not only illegal in most states. It is not recognized by the Federal government at all. Go figure.

So illegal in some states that they have amended the states constitution.

Where does that leave you?

Slavery was once legal too. Doesn't mean that it was right. It was oppression and nothing more. To lesser extent, it's the same thing here.

It must be such a good feeling to have your bigotries enforced by State. But in the end, the course of America is to become freer, to recognize the freedom and liberties of more and more people. As such, it is natural progression to recognize homosexual's right to contract the same as any other. Standing in the way of that is nothing less than oppression.
 
Religion isn't justifiable excuse. Everything is based on the rights of the individual. Not religious arguments which can change between gods and people.

Religion is a perfectly acceptable reason to cast a vote in any direction. There is no separation of church and people.

Adultery, BTW, is not illegal.

It is grounds for a civil lawsuit and a Court Martial, so yes adultery is illegal.
 
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No, this is a Republic, not a direct democracy. Thus you cannot infringe upon the rights of others,
What right is being infringed?
 
If everything was based on the rights of the individual, drugs would be legal without a prescription. So that's bunk.

The drug laws should be reverted back to what they were. It's the rights and liberties of the individual which are important. Which are the foundation of the government and the reason we took arms against the British. It is in that light which we must work.

And yet it is looked down upon by most.

Doesn't matter, it's still not illegal.
 
It is grounds for a civil lawsuit and a Court Martial, so yes adultery is illegal.

No, it's not illegal. It's grounds for violation of contract, yes. But it is not illegal. The use of it to establish breech of contract is separate from its criminal nature; and there is no criminal nature to adultery.
 
No, this is a Republic, not a direct democracy. Thus you cannot infringe upon the rights of others, no matter how much you vote.

Obviously you can and it is not considered infringing on anyones rights as it has already been done in the case of gay marriage. In fact people have voted and repealed such laws.

So again you are wrong.

Wrong. You don't like the never ending pursuit of liberty, you can get out or take a bullet.

Already been there. 12 years of it. What have you done for your country? :roll:

The choice is yours. But if you're going to stand in the way of freedom and liberty you should prepare for the possibility of some patriot taking you out. Treason and tyranny doesn't sit well for most in this country.

Oh no! I am being threatened with revolution! :rofl
 
The drug laws should be reverted back to what they were. It's the rights and liberties of the individual which are important. Which are the foundation of the government and the reason we took arms against the British. It is in that light which we must work.

And yet it's not happening. So again you are screaming at the air.

Doesn't matter, it's still not illegal.

So? Their are consequences. Does not matter if they are criminal in nature.
 
No, it's not illegal. It's grounds for violation of contract, yes. But it is not illegal. The use of it to establish breech of contract is separate from its criminal nature; and there is no criminal nature to adultery.

Violating Criminal law is not the sole item which qualifies an act as "illegal" :roll:

If I went out to the bar this evening and hooked up with someone, I would be committing a criminal act and could face a Court Martial as I am still legally married, so yes there absolutely is a criminal nature to adultery.
 
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We heteros don't need any more help ****ing up marriage, so unless gays are part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

I don't even know what that means? To what problem are you referring? And in what ways are gay people part of it? What solution are you looking for?

Thanks

S
 
A specific marriage may not have a religious component, but marriage as an institution retains a strong religious element.

Not for me it doesn't...

S
 
Violating Criminal law is not the sole item which qualifies an act as "illegal" :roll:

If I went out to the bar this evening and hooked up with someone, I would be committing a criminal act and could face a Court Martial as I am still legally married, so yes there absolutely is a criminal nature to adultery.

For illegal things, yes. There are many forms of contract in which a legal act could in fact be a violation of that contract and thus breech the terms of contract. In such case, you go to civil court. Adultery is not illegal, you will never be arrested for it. The only thing it can be used as is in terms of contract. And that is because people have the right to contract. If there was criminal nature to adultery, you would be criminally charged when committing it. But there is no such thing, so no there absolutely is not a criminal nature to adultery. No matter how much you wish it to be true to make your point.
 
And yet it's not happening. So again you are screaming at the air.

The government has oft overstepped boundaries. Trying to excuse tyranny with tyranny doesn't make a good argument.

So? Their are consequences. Does not matter if they are criminal in nature.

For the context of the argument, yes it does. Adultery is considered breech of contract in many states for the marriage contract. It is not an illegal act, it is not a criminal act. It is purely civil, purely circumstantial, and entirely up to the individuals whom have forged the contract.
 
The government has oft overstepped boundaries. Trying to excuse tyranny with tyranny doesn't make a good argument.

It has nothing to do with excusing anything or tyranny. It has to do with that is the way our system works. You are free to use the system to get what you think is fair, and I will do the same. It is simple.

Then later if it is found to be unconstitutional, it can again be changed.

For the context of the argument, yes it does. Adultery is considered breech of contract in many states for the marriage contract. It is not an illegal act, it is not a criminal act. It is purely civil, purely circumstantial, and entirely up to the individuals whom have forged the contract.

Again so what? It has consequences in most cases. It's again pretty simple.

Are you going to threaten me with a bullet or revolution again? ;)

Not baiting, just thought that was funny. No need to reply to it.
 
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All action has consequence, it is an effect of action. That doesn't make something illegal. As the context was using religion to make things illegal, and adultery is not illegal. Thanks for keeping up.
 
All action has consequence, it is an effect of action.

Yes.

But all reactions are NOT the same depending on the action. The reaction is not an absolute, only that their is one.

That doesn't make something illegal. As the context was using religion to make things illegal, and adultery is not illegal. Thanks for keeping up.

You keep harping about religion keeping something illegal when it is only a part of the equation. You need to open your eyes and understand what I am saying.

Even when I was NOT A CHRISTIAN. I did not support gay marriage. As a Christian I still don't support it and never will. If I was to become an atheist tomorrow I would still not support it.

It does not matter if it is illegal or not. Their are consequences for breaking the marital contract. It does not matter if it is criminal or civil. The reaction is not the same in all cases, this is a fact.
 
Why does it matter if its called marriage, thats in fact what it would be?
Welll... if it doesn't matter, then call it a 'civil union' and be done with it.
 
Yes.

But all reactions are NOT the same depending on the action. The reaction is not an absolute, only that their is one.

Everything is situation dependent, especially when dealing with consequences of contract and suing for breech of contract. But the fact is adultery is not in and of itself illegal; which was the original contention to that point. Which is why I've said that over and over again. I don't know how much clearer to make it. The original point was saying it's ok to use religion to make law and someone pointed to adultery. But adultery is not illegal. Depending on context of contract, it can be considered breech of contract and one party may sue the other for just that. But it's not an illegal act. That was the point of it all.

You keep harping about religion keeping something illegal when it is only a part of the equation. You need to open your eyes and understand what I am saying.

Even when I was NOT A CHRISTIAN. I did not support gay marriage. As a Christian I still don't support it and never will. If I was to become an atheist tomorrow I would still not support it.

It does not matter if it is illegal or not. Their are consequences for breaking the marital contract. It does not matter if it is criminal or civil. The reaction is not the same in all cases, this is a fact.

Christianity is not the only religion. Saying you were not Christian doesn't mean a damned thing. And you could have other bigotries which you base your decision off of as well; so again, you've said nothing. What you have said is that you believe that your bigotries should be exploited through law at the expense of the rights of a specific group. That is a fact.
 
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Welll... if it doesn't matter, then call it a 'civil union' and be done with it.

That's fine and dandy once you get rid of the Marriage License.
 
That's fine and dandy once you get rid of the Marriage License.
My point was that if it doesnt matter if it called 'marriage' or not, then there's no reason the same-sex union needs to be called 'marriage'.
BUT, that won't be acceptable.
 
My point was that if it doesnt matter if it called 'marriage' or not, then there's no reason the same-sex union needs to be called 'marriage'.
BUT, that won't be acceptable.

I don't really think it matters either. But so long as the Marriage License exists as a government issued and recognized contract, then all should have their right to contract recognized. In the end, I think it's all a big semantics game and I don't know why either side is so entrenched in their definitions. The best solution is to remove the marriage license all together, return marriage to a purely religious affair and let the churches worry about it.
 
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