View Poll Results: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

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    186 43.26%
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Thread: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

  1. #931
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
    Just once, I'd like someone against gay marriage to explain to me how it hurts them in the slightest or how it is any of their business.
    Already been there:

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    If Gay Marriage is legal then children will have to be taught a lie, that homosexuality is normal moral natural and healthy, which it ain't.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Mine does. That doesn't make yours superior.
    I fairly certain that it does. I have enough to do making moral decisions for myself and my family. I don't want to make those decisions for others. Frankly, it is arrogant to want to control the relationships of others and it is ignorant to think that you can. If two men or two women decide to get married that does not affect me in the slightest. I find it so interesting that so many of the arguments against gay marriage sound just like the arguments against interracial marriage from 50 years ago.
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  3. #933
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    They could do all that with legally recognized civil unions. Most of us against gay marriage support civil unions to give gays etc equal protection under the law. This is not on the table because a number of Gay's want marriage or nothing. I think it is because they want it legitimized, and I can't support that, period.
    I really don't understand the "I support civil unions but not the word 'marriage'" argument at all. You think that the word "marriage" would legitimize same-sex relationships, but "civil unions," with the exact same legal rights and social acceptance, somehow doesn't legitimize them? Marriage over civil unions is not primarily about legitimization, (that is simply an eventual by-product in my opinion.) It's about constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has ruled that separate but equal is unconstitutional (and because of that ruling, for example, racial integration has been legitimized, thank God.) So a separate institution from marriage with equal rights (aka civil union) is not constitutional, and frankly it's not necessary.

  4. #934
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    I really don't understand the "I support civil unions but not the word 'marriage'" argument at all. You think that the word "marriage" would legitimize same-sex relationships, but "civil unions," with the exact same legal rights and social acceptance, somehow doesn't legitimize them? Marriage over civil unions is not primarily about legitimization, (that is simply an eventual by-product in my opinion.) It's about constitutional rights. The Supreme Court has ruled that separate but equal is unconstitutional (and because of that ruling, for example, racial integration has been legitimized, thank God.) So a separate institution from marriage with equal rights (aka civil union) is not constitutional, and frankly it's not necessary.
    The idea is to eliminate the legal part of marriage and replace it with civil unions. Not to create a seperate institution.

    Basically, no one would be able to get a marriage certificate, but instead would get a "civil union" certificate.

    Damnit...

    For some reason, the past multi-quotes I've chosen keep adding themselves to my more recent single-quote replys.
    Last edited by The Mark; 06-08-10 at 06:12 PM.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Already been there:
    And already debunked. Point negated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
    Very true.

    I also define winning as having a moderator get so frustrated that he abuses his privledges. In this case I predict it will by unequal aplication of the trolling rule, as this is the most subjective.
    And I also define winning as having an opponent become so frustrated that he must troll and break rules to get himself removed from the discussion, since he's been beaten so badly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    I really don't understand the "I support civil unions but not the word 'marriage'" argument at all. You think that the word "marriage" would legitimize same-sex relationships, but "civil unions," with the exact same legal rights and social acceptance, somehow doesn't legitimize them?
    Allot of people don't get it. It is a completely religious argument. Which is why Christians tend to be the most vocal.

    Our government is secular and should (in my opinion) never have got involved in marriage to being with. To me and other religious people it is supposed to be a union brought together by and for God, not the sate. Since the state is involved, it is now a social contract as well.

    It would not legitimize it, and people know this. That is why civil unions are not accepted by a portion of the gay community.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    Marriage over civil unions is not primarily about legitimization, (that is simply an eventual by-product in my opinion.) It's about constitutional rights.
    A civil union would cover this as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    The Supreme Court has ruled that separate but equal is unconstitutional (and because of that ruling, for example, racial integration has been legitimized, thank God.) So a separate institution from marriage with equal rights (aka civil union) is not constitutional, and frankly it's not necessary.
    In our society 2 men engaged in a family type situation is not a marriage, same for females. A man and a woman makes a marriage. I know this is a more traditional view, but it is what it is.

    It has nothing to do with equal but separate. It has to do with a union put together by God, vs a union put together by the state.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 06-08-10 at 09:22 PM.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  8. #938
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Allot of people don't get it. It is a completely religious argument. Which is why Christians tend to be the most vocal.

    Our government is secular and should (in my opinion) never have got involved in marriage to being with. To me and other religious people it is supposed to be a union brought together by and for God, not the sate. Since the state is involved, it is now a social contract as well.
    If you're admitting that it is a completely religious argument (the argument for civil unions and against civil marriage), then there's literally no debating: That argument should not be taken into consideration. There is a separation of church and state, period. And what you're ignoring is the difference between civil marriage and sacramental marriage. The state is NOT involved in sacramental marriage, which churches are free to control, but it IS involved in civil marriage, which is completely separate from any religion and deals only with legal rights such as filing taxes, etc. If you're against civil marriage in general, then I don't know why you're only singling out the same-sex aspect of it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    A civil union would cover this as well.
    No... a civil union does not ensure equal constitutional rights. New Jersey is a prime example of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    In our society 2 men engaged in a family type situation is not a marriage, same for females. A man and a woman makes a marriage. I know this is a more traditional view, but it is what it is.
    Your traditional opinion is irrelevant because it is no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion about marriage and family, whether traditional, progressive, or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It has nothing to do with equal but separate. It has to do with a union put together by God, vs a union put together by the state.
    It doesn't matter what your God made a union because there may be other religions that disagree, as well as people who don't adhere to your religion that disagree. Your religious views are no more valid than mine. I'm not even debating about the union put together by your God or my God or anyone else's God. What I am talking about, in fact, IS the union put together by the state, which is why all this religious talk is irrelevant because church and state are separate. Since the state has a duty to treat all citizens equally, same-sex CIVIL marriage should be legal. There is no religious obligation to recognize civil marriage now, and there won't be if same-sex couples are included in civil marriage laws.

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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    If you're admitting that it is a completely religious argument (the argument for civil unions and against civil marriage), then there's literally no debating: That argument should not be taken into consideration.
    I was not debating anything at all. I was answering your question.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    There is a separation of church and state, period. And what you're ignoring is the difference between civil marriage and sacramental marriage. The state is NOT involved in sacramental marriage, which churches are free to control, but it IS involved in civil marriage, which is completely separate from any religion and deals only with legal rights such as filing taxes, etc. If you're against civil marriage in general, then I don't know why you're only singling out the same-sex aspect of it...
    This is not true. Without a state license you cannot have a sacramental marriage, period. This is a fact.

    So no, I am not ignoring anything.

    I am against civil marriage in all cases. As I stated, the government should never have gotten into the marriage business. Since they are now, and this is not going to change. We have to work with what we have.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    No... a civil union does not ensure equal constitutional rights. New Jersey is a prime example of this.
    This is not what I was referring to. Since you are new here, I don’t mind repeating what I have said many times before.

    A civil union recognized by the state and honored by the Federal government constitutionally must be recognized by all states as a legal and binding contract, with all the benefits of marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    Your traditional opinion is irrelevant because it is no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion about marriage and family, whether traditional, progressive, or whatever.
    If it were not valid gay marriage would already be the law, it however is not. So yes it is just as relevant as anyone else’s opinion.

    Just because it is an “opinion” in and of itself, does not make it irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    It doesn't matter what your God made a union because there may be other religions that disagree, as well as people who don't adhere to your religion that disagree. Your religious views are no more valid than mine. I'm not even debating about the union put together by your God or my God or anyone else's God.
    You asked the question. All I did was explain it.

    As for your view, that’s cool and you are welcome to it, but this alone does not make you correct. Fact is 70+ percent of this country identifies them selves as Christian. This alone makes it matter. We do have a secular government, but we have a predominantly Christian population.

    Any large block of voters is free to vote their conscience on the issues. The victory of anti-gay marriage proponents in CA, should be ample proof of this. So what my God says certainly does matter to me, and because it also matters to 224,437,959 Christian Americans, it should matter to you as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    What I am talking about, in fact, IS the union put together by the state, which is why all this religious talk is irrelevant because church and state are separate.
    Only in that laws cannot be passed based on religion, this is not the case as no law is being passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by sweEt Mauritius View Post
    Since the state has a duty to treat all citizens equally, same-sex CIVIL marriage should be legal. There is no religious obligation to recognize civil marriage now, and there won't be if same-sex couples are included in civil marriage laws.
    Where did this silly notion of “the state has a duty to treat all citizens equally” come from? If this were the case “hate laws” and “affirmative action” would not exist, so no the state is under no “obligation.”

    I agree that their is no religious obligation to recognize civil marriage now. Since government can pass no law forcing churches to accept this, it is not really a concern.

    We will see about the rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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    Re: Gay Marriage, is it right to stop it?

    6/9/10
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